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Used Audio Research Preamp Options

Before I pose my question, I do admit that I expect mixed responses since the question is somewhat subjective. That been said, I think I have pushed myself into an obsession to own an Audio Research preamp. I know there are better preamps out there for the money and I might ultimately overcome this obsession but I'd like to hear from folks who have owned different ARC preamp's over the years about their personal experiences. So here is my question: if you had $2500 to spend, which used ARC preamp would you buy? A line stage component would be fine, tube or SS. I'm also making an assumption which may not be completely valid and that is any of these preamps will be an upgrade from my NAD C165BEE. Any comments will be appreciated here too. My other components are McIntosh MC2200 (100K impedance) and a Vincent SP-331 ( 47K impedance,150w in 8 ohm/300w 4 ohm) amplifiers. Not sure if speakers matter- ML Aerius, Def. Tech. BP20 since I'm also looking for an upgrade route there too. Thanks.

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Showing 9 responses by kalali

kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
I looked for the Vincent SA-T8 a little while back and it appears that it is no longer sold, at least here in US. The closest model I could find is a hybrid unit and the upgraded version sells for ~$1500. In general, I think their products are underrated based on my own personal experience with their amp which I bought new. As for ARC, I'll keep my eyes open for an LS25 MK2 or SP14, or stretch out for a Ref 2 MK2.

And thanks for the tip on Legacy speakers.
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
Thanks. There was an LS25 MK2 here for $2500 but it is no longer available. The models that I see are mostly SP16, SP17, and an LS26. I see an LS3 for $900. I assume it's not a popular model. Are SP models generally better than LS? I know the REF models are top flight. Appreciate the inputs. So you guys seem to think that even a 15-20 year old ARC is going to be better than my one year old NAD preamp.... it actually sounds pretty decent..
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 

Well, there's definitely some truth in both the perception of the glamour and more ARC owners upgrading to newer models. Could be explained as brand loyalty or great marketing but either way, it helps with both desirability and resale value. Another side benefit of these artifacts is there are mere owners out there to provide input of which model/year to buy. I have no doubt there are better preamps out there for a comparable price but its more difficult to get a broad owners' view of how good they are.

bpolleti - Strangely enough, there's a Herron VTSP-3a (R03) for sale right now in A'gon and not much of a stretch from my budget... in case anyone else is looking for one.

kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
At the risk of showing my ignorance, I went ahead and hooked up first my CD player and then my Bluesound Node wireless DAC directly t my MC2200. I put those two separate gain controls on the amp to use and the sound quality is quite good, maybe even a tad better than with the NAD preamp in between. I left it with the Bluesound for now since most of my listening is from Tidal or some college radio stations. So assuming I have no need for two of the preamp's main functions; volume control and source switching, would my $2500 buy me better sound if spent on an preamp or elsewhere on the audio path?
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
May be I should start a new thread to ask a different question. But in the meantime, where I stand: I spent a good part of the day experimenting with different configurations and I've now confirmed that I can directly connect either my CD player or the Bluesound Node 2 wireless DAC to my MC2200 and get plenty - actually more than my ears can handle, of volume. Between the gain controls on the MC2200 and the volume control on the Bluesound mobile app, I have no gain/volume issues. The obvious issue is I can only use one source at a time. Should i now be looking for a passive preamp our do I just need to get so sort of a "switch" to select the desired source? If so, this begs the question why more folks take this route and spend mega bucks on a (active) preamp. Does a "good" preamp add to sound quality - soundstaging, imaging, etc., above a direct connection? Sorry if I'm asking the obvious but I was caught a bit off-guard discovering that I could even run my system without a preamp. Thanks as always for your great input.
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 

Thank you. Interestingly enough, I did see that (new) LS17SE and it looked like a great deal but didn't see it as one of the models folks mentioned. No doubt its a great unit and glad to see it going to a good home. I also found an LS25 MK2 from a reputable dealer and almost pulled the trigger until I did the direct input experiment and liked the outcome.

I'll look for the thread mentioned above to see what folks say but I can already expect to hear divided inputs. I actually remember seeing some ARC models have a "direct" button which I guess gives the option to bypass the preamp altogether. It is however interesting to hear that see people actually do prefer the preamp in the chain. I'm sure like everything else, it all depends on the specifications of the source and the amp as well as the quality/length of the interconnects. In my case, I couldn't find any specs for either my CD player or the Bluesound but a low 0.775mV input sensitivity for the amp and using a very short distance - 0.5m, between the components are helping with the gain.

 

kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
I read about the "direct" option when researching some of the older ARC models like LS3. According to ARC, the Direct mode provides the highest level of resolution when using high gain line stage components such as CD players, etc. Not sure if it acts as a passive preamp or not. I'm sure there are folks who know this model and can comment.
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
For that sort of $, I would expect no less....Fortunately the closest ARC dealer is about 50 miles away from me so I'm somewhat guarded from completely destroying my enjoyment from my current system...
kalali's avatar
kalali OP
1,977 posts
 
To put this with or without preamp question to bed for myself, I locked myself in the room and tried to do an A/B comparison to hear the difference. I’ll say that my system is probably not as good as or in some cases anywhere as good as what a lot of folks here own so this test technically proves nothing in general and is just one data point. One other thing I should add is that in comparison with all the other criteria, for me the quality of soundstage is really a big deal as a measure of the overall quality of a system. Other folks may have different preferences. When I run my sources - CD player or DAC, directly into the amp, the sound is a little more open and crisper but I sense the midrange, especially female vocals are more forward and have a slight sharp edge. It sounds real nice at first but after a few minutes or an hour it really stands out and is more noticeable. The soundstage, particularly the depth is also not as good but strangely the width is bigger. I lose a bit of that crispness and width with the preamp in but the soundstage seems more recessed. I hear folks say that with passives the interconnect cables play a bigger role in sound quality so there may be other ways to strike a compromise by experimenting with other variables but in my system, adding an (active) preamp can clearly affect how the content is delivered, particularly the musical presentation of the soundstage. All in all, I still prefer the direct connection even though it limits me to using only one source at any given time. Ultimately, I find the wider soundstage and the "crisper" midrange more satisfying mainly because it "fills" the room better and the imaging is a tad sharper in off-axis listening positions.
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