Vibration Control for Lightweight Tube Components

Vibrapods.

Lowrider57, I would caution that the sound is new to you, give it a while. That’s not to say ultimately that it may not need adjusting to suit your tastes. I’ve found when smearing and distortions or confusion are first removed, there is a sense that things went leaner because so much more is resolved and no longer a fuzzy clutter. You should not have to have vibration in your gear and what comes with it to have the midrange warmth you desire. Yet, here is where Hi-Fi gets tricky. When you change one thing, it may well cause you to have to tweak others to get the balance or Gestalt of your sound back where you want it.

Before calling the bamboo the issue of leanness though I would suggest that you try some small wood blocks contacting between the bamboo and the chassis of your components. This will prove out if dampening the component box gives you back some of that midrange body, but it will also drain of cabinet bound energy as well.

Try anything, whatever you have on hand. I like myrtle wood blocks but, any wood will sound somewhat the same. I also like the bamboo yet, some like the maple ( many have only tried maple), though I tried both and went back to bamboo. But that’s me, and my kit, I can’t say it will ultimately work for you. Thickness also has an effect on the tone, so I’m afraid you may have to experiment there as well. A strategy might be to buy or borrow a marble wood board and try it under different components. Different gear may well like different isolation boards. My two turntables like thin (5/8-3/4") bamboo, my mono block amps prefer heavy (2 1/2") maple or bamboo, and my CD player seems to prefer a BDR Black Diamond Racing Reference board to perform best, so go figure.

At this point the good news is, you have successfully acquired isolation from the vibration, so that’s one step in the right direction. Now, don’t be afraid to just experiment.

I only use four of the moongels at the corners. Try it that way and see if it changes. You mentioned earlier you use the Herbie tube dampers I believe. I use them too and prefer them. I run my dampers all the way to the top. If you have them in the middle try moving them up if there's room or completely off.

Maple is definitely a softer wood and just like drums it will be a little warmer sound. Bamboo is very rigid and dense. The moongel pads are doing the fix more than the bamboo shelf I suspect. Try the moongels only; directly under the stock feet or your preamp taking the shelf out of the mix. Try the other tweaks noted above first.

Definitely agree with r_f_sayles last post. Give it some time. 

Lowrider, I really don’t know the answer to that question in terms of  the dissipation of vibration stemming form floor to equipment via a rack. The bamboo platers have greater density and are thinner. The maple shelves I use are much thicker, though less dense. Those more knowledgable in mechanical impedance might shed a light on this. I believe we are asking, can a mechanical ‘ring’ be translated to an electrical one by the forces generating the mechanical one.

It is a good thing I only think of these things when on computer, not when listening to my system. Need to spend more time with system, not computer. 

Still enjoy this thread!

@bpoletti, I put Vibrapods back under the preamp, and it sounded warmer, but there was a loss of low-end detail. The Isonodes are superior.

@r_f_sayles, I appreciate your advice. Yes, the sound is new to me and I had a long listening session today. I don't mind the neutral timbre the bamboo brings to my system, but there is a characteristic that is a problem. CD's now have an "edge" in the higher frequencies; eg, cymbol crashes do not sound realistic.

 Trying some wood blocks under the chassis is a good idea. I can say for certain that the change in timbre is due to the wood and not the footers, because I previously tried the Isonodes on the pine shelf and they were completely transparent. In other words, the preamp on pine sounded warm and lush as usual, but with more detail than other footers.

Low - have you tried Vibrapod cones on top of Vibrapod pucks?

Thanks adg101, some good ideas. The bamboo might be too stiff with 6 Moongels.
I'll also try them under the stock feet. They are an amazing invention; when I was playing drums, all we had was duct tape and a wad of paper towel on the skins.

And I have always placed Herbie's tube dampers at the upper third near the top of the plates.

Lowrider57, when you tried the Isonodes on the pine shelf and got the warmer and lusher presentation, what did they come in contact with? The component feet or the chassis?

Ha... another drummer. 

The myrtle wood blocks work really good and I too use them under most of my gear instead of the stock feet; use three per. I use the stock feet on my table and my preamp I run three Daedalus DiD's. All equipment sits on bamboo w/ the moongels except my amp as it weighs too much for the gels... it also has two stacks off three of the wood blocks. I have to stack them on the amp because the stock feet are tall. I use Ayre myrtle blocks which are the same as the Cardas brand.

The Daedalus DiD's are remarkable and I'll be getting a set for my cd and amp next. The wood blocks are very good but not even close to the DiD's. If you get a chance to try the DiD's you'll be hooked.

@bpoletti, no I haven't.

@r_f_sayles, the Isonodes are adhered to the bottom of the chassis.
Let me clarify this issue; my system has always had lush, warm sonics using a preamp on the pine shelf. With the new lightweight preamp, it still had the same timbre (due to tube selection), but suffered from resonances thru the shelf.
I tried Herbie's, Vibrapods, and now Isonodes; all kept the warm sonic signature, but the Isonodes provided greater detail.

Tomorrow I'll play with placement of the Moongels, and I do have various pieces of wood to try.

adg101... what are the dimensions of the Daedalus DiD's, specifically the height?
I have a height issue with the large tubes now that I've added the bamboo board.

Please note for most applications small springs don't require a board of any type so that eliminates that variable.  Also, if one wishes to use a board or granite whatever, due to the nature of mass of spring operation/function the physical characteristics of the board or slab are minimized since the board or slab itself is isolated from structural vibration hence can't get too excited.

I feel somewhat remiss in that when I made my last post I didn’t see the previous 3 posts on page 2.

Anyway, I purchased a set of Moongels yesterday and will be looking into the mentioned replacements for equipment footers. These things I will employ when I get back from a month of travel to the southwest US. 

lowrider57. The DiD's are 1 7/16" tall - 2" Dia.

I have it on pretty good authority that Vibraplanes are the only truly legitimate isolation platform.  I think that this is confirmed by the fact that an air  based isolating platform is what is used in all real deal labs and research facilities. 
For light weight gear you can "mass load" meaning adding a steel plate or other level, stable weight to fulfill the platforms weight requirements. I have three, one exclusively for my tt, a Basis 2800. I've added a 110lb steel plate and it sounds truly awesome, much better then before I added it. 

I found some scrap wood today in the house and pulled out a board which had been cut in half. It's a soft wood and lightweight.

Using 5 Moogels underneath, I swapped it with the bamboo and take a guess...my system sounds terrific. It's got a warm timbre with realistic sounding instruments. Preamp is using the Isonodes.

As a test, I used the worst DG mastered CD's I own and the music does sound natural. These are the harsh sounding, close-miked orchestra CDs and they sound quite acceptable when using this new suspension shelf. And no resonances from my rack.
So, I think I'll buy some finished wood at Lowes. 

Great Lowrider! I love inexpensive tweeks.

moryoga wrote,

"I have it on pretty good authority that Vibraplanes are the only truly legitimate isolation platform. I think that this is confirmed by the fact that an air based isolating platform is what is used in all real deal labs and research facilities. For light weight gear you can "mass load" meaning adding a steel plate or other level, stable weight to fulfill the platforms weight requirements. I have three, one exclusively for my tt, a Basis 2800. I’ve added a 110lb steel plate and it sounds truly awesome, much better then before I added it."

Actually while Vibraplane is one of the first audiophile vibration isolation stands it is certainly not the only air type platform nor are air type platforms the only "real" isolation devices. Actually Vibraplane used to be a microscope stand that was marketed to the audiophile market. Prior to Vibraplane there was the Townshend Seismic sink, another air spring (I.e., mass-on-spring) device. I introduced Nimbus almost twenty years ago, another air spring device. Bright Star also had an air spring device. And there were a bunch of others, like Relaxa magnetic levitation, Vibrapods, etc. The Minus K device employs "negative stiffness" which is not an air design to achieve super isolation performance. Vibraplane and my Nimbus employed heavy mass mounted below the air springs to preload the platform but more importantly - in the case of Nimbus - to provide much needed lateral support since my Nimbus used only ONE air spring. Obviously preloading reduces resonant frequency of the device. Mechanical steel springs and, say, bungee cords work the same way as the Vibraplane, as a low mechanical pass filter.

geoff kait
machina dynamica

... And just how much is a Vibraplane that will hold one piece of audio gear???

This is why it may be "ultimate" but people have to skin-the-cat for far less. And I would bet you we are getting most of what the Vp isolates (80-90%) for a fraction of the cost.

Lowrider57, glad you have your warmth back without resonance, fortunately soft wood panels are not expensive either. 

if you want a finished maple wood platform, as you may well know, Amazon and IKEA also have a nice assortment of cost effective options and some of the cutting/chopping boards are really beautiful and don't carry the "audiophile" price gouge.

Happy Listening!

r_f_sayles wrote,

"This is why it may be "ultimate" but people have to skin-the-cat for far less. And I would bet you we are getting most of what the Vp isolates (80-90%) for a fraction of the cost."

Hope springs eternal in the heart of the frugal audiophile. Springs. Get it? ;-) The article Bad Vibes! by Shannon Dickson appeared in Stereophile about the time Vibraplane came out, about 20 years ago.

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/52/#x5wTtreK38fkz2gg.97

G. K.
M. D.

I would highly recommend that you look at Solid Tech Feet of Silence or Discs of Silence. I use the Feet of Silence. I have no connection with the company- but I will say that their products are an integral part of my system. Installing the FOS was tantamount to buying a new component- they are that good, in my opinion. Go to their website and look at the test measurement results- and the results are achievable regardless of what kind of surface you put them on. 

They use the mass on springs concept that was mentioned earlier. 

Sorbothane cones, or a slab of it you cut to fit, work for all my vibration issues. Google sorbothane to read about it. I got a 1/4 inch by 12 x 12 piece for about $30.00 and cut it to fit as support for all my components. My turntable would skip if I didnt approach it on cat-paw feet. Now I walk normally and detect no issues. Multiple pieces at multiple levels. Feet of the rack, suspension points for the shelf, and on the feet of the component.