Vinyl and subwoofers

Cleeds
It’s almost always a setup problem, not an inherent problem with LP playback. It’s best remedied by correcting the setup, rather than by introducing a filter.

I agree with you but this has been my personal experience.

Recording venue noise (source lp)
Turntable rumble (setup issue)

So which is it? The money is on setup sure ......but here is the thing.

imo - anyone that is playing vinyl in a system that does justice to the bottom 2 octaves, and the gear sits on suspended wood floors...that in itself is a room setup issue /error. The person imo, will be doing all kinds of things - filters, isolation, damping, etc.... to overcome problems. This is just one example and does not refer to golferboy’s system...we have no room info?

At some point you need to start listening to the music again and a room sometimes just can not be changed. From friends in the past including myself at one point, I would say the majority, say every 3 / 5 people had systems on suspended floors.

Golferboy - it would probably help if you list 3-4 lps you are having issues with. Then the folks reading the thread can input their actual experiences.
Cheers

golferboy

I fine-tuned the Clearaudio table and cartridge setup with their vinyl for that purpose. If bad setup were the cause, that would mean I've had many cartridges on two tables over 10 years out of whack. Doesn't seem plausible...but who knows.

If you've always had this problem, then it's very likely you have a setup problem. Yes, what you have is a common problem but no, it's not inherent in LP playback. What kind of stand do you have your turntable on? What kind of floor supports the stand? What else are you doing to isolate the turntable system from the room?

Hi cleeds and ct0517,
I have my turntable on the top of a rack 5ft high on top of a 2x2 ft slab of marble. The stand sits on points that sit on carpet and go through to a concrete floor. The speakers are each 4 ft away from the turntable and are also on spikes that go through the carpet into the concrete floor. This is also true for the sub. Since I've started listening to vinyl, I've had 5 different cartridges, two tables, and 6 phono stages. Woofer pumping has ocurred with all configurations, meaning I have got the set up wrong about 10 times. In my mind it is not plausible. Perhaps this pumping is because the Thiels go down to 20hz. As I've said before, without the sub, the pumping has not been audible, just visually bothersome. The worst record for this is Boxer, by the National.

golferboy

I have my turntable on the top of a rack 5ft high on top of a 2x2 ft slab of marble. The stand sits on points that sit on carpet and go through to a concrete floor. The speakers are each 4 ft away from the turntable and are also on spikes that go through the carpet into the concrete floor. This is also true for the sub. Since I've started listening to vinyl, I've had 5 different cartridges, two tables, and 6 phono stages. Woofer pumping has ocurred with all configurations, meaning I have got the set up wrong about 10 times. In my mind it is not plausible. Perhaps this pumping is because the Thiels go down to 20hz.

If you have a subwoofer four feet from your turntable, that's quite likely part of your problem. Please feel free to think it's "not plausible" that you have a setup problem, but consider this: How do you explain that other Lp setups - with bass extension at least the equal of yours - do not have woofer pumping/rumble problems?

Hi Golferboy

"The worst record for this is Boxer, by the National"

The band recorded Boxer with producer Peter Katis, with vocalist Matt Berninger stating, "We recorded a lot of it at home. Probably half and half of home recording and recording with Peter in the studio. We always kind of work that way, going in and out of studios and then back home. We have little home set-ups. .....

taken from here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_(album)

Sounds like a good candidate for recording venue related to me. But I do not own the album.

All the album tracks here. have been listening to it :^)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHaln2drAdc&list=PLVKXUV0dJqqmO-Sac6-4Dl1myCMDGGTAx&index=2

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If you bring a woofer into a speaker repair shop to have it fixed, before they give it back to you they run a test signal through it.

from memory sending a 10 - 20 hz through a 12 inch woofer will make it oscillate violently and depending on design it will eventually stop above that.

re your Classe Amp

As a Canadian I have owned my share of Classe amps.

Going from memory again.

Re; The CA series I remember talking to Robert of Classe in Montreal. He told me their design was "more - and smaller" capacitors for quick energy transfer.  The drawback I found with CA - 300 and 400 was a rounded bass. It sounded good - tube like in the mids and higher. But the bass was bettered by both my Krell and modded Music Reference RM9 Tube Amp with KT-88 tubes. I also remember having to have the speakers closer to boundaries with the Classe. The speakers were able to moved back out with the other amps.

You have been through many phono stages. Did any previous pre/phono stages have a subsonic filter ?

Fun thread BTW.