What are we objectivists missing?


I have been following (with much amusement) various threads about cables and tweaks where some claim "game changing improvements" and other claim "no difference".  My take is that if you can hear a difference, there must be some difference.  If a device or cable or whatever measures exactly the same it should sound exactly the same.  So what are your opinions on what those differences might be and what are we NOT measuring that would define those differences?

jtucker

All humans have biases

100% true. But, this works both ways. For the "objectivists" too

Subjective claims are null and void for everyone but the one making them

The emphasis is mine on the quoted phrase. Again, I don’t think people are making claims. Instead, they are sharing their impressions. It’s a public forum. Meaning people gather, talk to each other, share what they like and don’t like, sharing their experiences. If you don’t like what people share, ignore them. Let the people who enjoy the discussion with each other be. As easy as that. Go by whatever fits your bill, including the measurements you take yourself or read on the internet from a measurement guru of your preference.

 

It is simple:

Subjectivist sometimes dont learn how to listen by themselves, and this is acoustic science training by the way... they trust more the branded name of the gear they bought than their ears training ...They train their ears distinguishing amplifiers marketed sounds qualities 😁😊

Objectivist are worst, they trust their measuring tools  ONLY...Or they trust  misapplied very limited blind test which are an  industrial methodological statistical tool not a tool for learning concrete acoustic ...

None of them most of the time learn with their EARS acoustic concrete science in listening experiments...

Solving equations of acoustic is not enough in applied acoustic of complex small room by the way...Acoustic like medecine is an art based on science...

 

 

100% true. But, this works both ways. For the "objectivists" too

Absolutely. If I say 2 dacs sound the same I will add if it's simply a subjective opinion or one I have tested. 

This thread isn't about cable A sounds better than cable B to John Doe but why will some claim A is sounds different  than B yet measure the same. Are there unknown measurements we need to make? My point is bias has to be eliminated to see if the reason is bias or some unknown before we can begin to investigate this unknown as a real factor.  Share whatever impressions you want but if someone is asking for RELEVANT feedback on a component my or anyones subjective opinion isn't really worth squat.

A cable measured or bought for his magical true or untrue quality will not sound the same in two different rooms, especially if the evaluating ears read the publicity of the cables before buying it or worst because some measured it instead of listening it...

Astounding that people dont seems to understand that basic acoustic listening training is needed to be able to evaluate ANY component and optimize his working...

Subjectivist and objectivist focus on the GEAR market publicity, one group favorably the other group with defiance....Same error, one group trusting the branded name of the product the other group an electrical tool to measure it...

Astounding ignorance....But at least subjectivist guess that they can educate the way they listen....Objectivist are measuring tool fetichist.... 😁😊

None of them learn how to tune a room by themselves, nor to eliminate vibrations  and to control the electrical noise floor of the house to some extent,  AS the three main experiments in audiophile life... Not blind test nor upgrade...

None of them most of the time learn with their EARS acoustic concrete science in listening experiments...

Good experiments use trained and untrained listeners. I agree with  a lot of what you say about audio, not all. To me 90% of what we experience is room/ speaker interaction and how we've tuned them with either passive room threats, EQ or both. As long as your electronic system is competently designed and most is, not specifically made to have a sound signature it's  no more than 10% of it, and yes, that's only my opinion.