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What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?

Douglas Self wrote a devastating article about audio anomalies back in 1988. With all the necessary knowledge and measuring tools, he did not detect any supposedly audible changes in the electrical signal. Self and his colleagues were sure that they had proved the absence of anomalies in audio, but over the past 30 years, audio anomalies have not disappeared anywhere, at the same time the authority of science in the field of audio has increasingly become questioned. It's hard to believe, but science still cannot clearly answer the question of what electricity is and what sound is! (see article by A.J.Essien).

For your information: to make sure that no potentially audible changes in the electrical signal occur when we apply any "audio magic" to our gear, no super equipment is needed. The smallest step-change in amplitude that can be detected by ear is about 0.3dB for a pure tone. In more realistic situations it is 0.5 to 1.0dB'". This is about a 10% change. (Harris J.D.). At medium volume, the voltage amplitude at the output of the amplifier is approximately 10 volts, which means that the smallest audible difference in sound will be noticeable when the output voltage changes to 1 volt. Such an error is impossible not to notice even using a conventional voltmeter, but Self and his colleagues performed much more accurate measurements, including ones made directly on the music signal using Baxandall subtraction technique - they found no error even at this highest level.

As a result, we are faced with an apparently unsolvable problem: those of us who do not hear the sound of wires, relying on the authority of scientists, claim that audio anomalies are BS. However, people who confidently perceive this component of sound are forced to make another, the only possible conclusion in this situation: the electrical and acoustic signals contain some additional signal(s) that are still unknown to science, and which we perceive with a certain sixth sense.

If there are no electrical changes in the signal, then there are no acoustic changes, respectively, hearing does not participate in the perception of anomalies. What other options can there be?

Regards.
anton_stepichev
cmichaelo
2 posts
 
Maybe someone already explained this, but I simply didn't have the time to look through the whole thread. Due to manufacturing tolerances, a cable isn't electrically the same from both directions.

The reason is that a cable is a transmission line and can be viewed as a distributed network of resistors, R(z), capacitors, C(z) and inductors, L(z) (and other electrical components like memristors), and where 'z' is the cable position. But limiting the view to just R, C and L, it's not hard to see that since a cable is a mechanically constructed device with small variations/tolerances in wire thickness as well as small variations/tolerances in the separation of the two wires, that these variations will cause a z-dependent random change on the incremental value (ie, df(z)/dz) of R(z), C(z) and L(z).  Because of this, when flipping the cable around, one will see a different distributed network, though not much different, but nevertheless different.

So maybe those "directional" cables are known to exhibit a more significant electrical difference in one direction than in the other direction due to the manufacturing/design process of them and the manufacturer decided that one direction "sounds better" than the other and put an arrow on the cable?
dletch2
455 posts
 
I dont have an opinion about direction but the problem is way more deep than the skeptic would want to admit....


Or you are complicating a ham sandwich. There are two choices. The difference is audible. The difference is not audible. The only way to know is an unbiased listening test. No more. No less. If a person is making the claim the wire is directional, then you test that 1 person, with that 1 wire, and if they cannot tell the difference, then their claim is debunked.


--- Don't be confused about what the claim actually is. They are not claiming that wires are directional. They are claiming that they can hear the difference in the direction of wires. ---     We are not debunking the directional claim, we are debunking the claim they can hear a difference.


If we do this test enough, then we can draw a statistical conclusion that they are not audibly directional, in all likelihood for anyone. However, by measuring the properties in both direction, we can make fairly accurate claims as well. If the difference is -120db below the signal in the audible frequency range, we can be confident it will not be heard. We could be confident at a much smaller difference.


But still, most of the claims are made by very specific people, i.e. manufacturers, who claim the difference is obvious and significant. I don't remember ever hearing this before manufacturers started claiming it. So, given their extraordinary claims, we only need to debunk their ability to detect a change. Not everyone on the planet, only their claim, which is that they, as a company, can detect directionality. It is a well bounded case.
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,183 posts
 
It is a well bounded case.
For sure you are right...

I am more interested by the philosophical implications thats all...But i give to you that what you just said is very clear....It is a beginning...


mapman's avatar
mapman
22,336 posts
 
But still, most of the claims are made by very specific people, i.e. manufacturers, who claim the difference is obvious and significant.

...yet often don’t bother to tell you which is the right direction in the manual. Yes any sophisticated device that cost a lot of money can be expected to come with a manual that tells you how to properly use it. Mark the direction on the wire and reference it in the manual to leave no doubt. OR maybe they don’t really know either but say they do? That’s dishonest. Even for a wire. How can you trust a company that forgets to document such an important thing as the correct direction of their directional wire?  Or worse yet outright lies to you?   Much less pay them big bucks for it?

Oh well its a free country. Do it if you must.
sumaato
100 posts
 
There are two choices. The difference is audible. The difference is not audible. The only way to know is an unbiased listening test
I agree. Absent a quantitative analytical procedure for testing audible directionality, then a well set up listening test with a substantial test group is necessary.

I'm puzzled that, with all the energy, money and time put into the audio cable market, there is still not yet a substantial body of listening test evidence to glean even a consensus that wire or wire direction matters.

There are a lot of tech people in the audiophile world. With the money being asked for cables, why isn't there a clearer consensus that it's worthwhile? Joe saying that his Kimber fat hosepipe costing $2000 a pair only work correctly in one direction isn't a reliable basis for the rest of us to make decisions.
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