What do we hear when we change the direction of a wire?

Gentlemen materialists, you have not yet answered the question about the reliability of blind tests.

Let me remind you that at the moment we have found out that when the wire is reversed, there are absolutely no changes in the electrical signal occur. Thus, according to the laws of conventional physics, these changes are not present in the acoustic signal and we can not hear them.

Next thing is all known subjective tests including blind tests are designed to detect audible differences in the acoustic signal, but we already know that these differences do not exist.

So what else can we prove with blind tests in our situation?

@OP   

Back to the blind test, as per your request.

Not exactly a blind test, but this example is close enough. Been building a LOT of speakers during the past year with a friend. We tune them (damping/stuffing/crossover) first based on what we have noticed that worked well on previous speakers. The we live with them for a while before we listen critically. We look for problems, what is missing, what is too loud. Then, we put the two side by side and run a mono signal through. One is kept original, the other has the mods done. We alternate sitting and listening with standing and switching from L-R so we can A/B the speakers. Because the signal is in mono, and because the speakers are right next to each other, we are in a big room and sit far enough back so identifying which speaker is making the sound is difficult. Is it a blind test? No, does it allow us to listen for differences in the two speakers? Yes. This happens a couple of times until we feel we have the speakers sounding as best they can given the drivers being used. The very last A/B session, we are dealing with very tiny adjustments. Most would not be able to differentiate between the two if they were not told what to listen for at this point. We can hear it because we know what we are listening for, a specific tone or timbre to a particular part of music.

Would these differences matter to most people at the end? No, probably not as the source, amp and room will over ride what we have done in the final steps. 

But the difference is there. I would like to think that if the same two speakers were side by each, in the same room, with me not having been part of the tuning, that I would be able to pint out the differences. Something I have in fact done with speakers he has worked on with me not being part of the process. 

Two speakers, mono, side by side being A/B'd with no knowledge of what was done to one or the other, I could tell the difference, and describe what the differences were and what was causing them.

Not sure I am a believer of the full double triple extra secret super blind test.

So, pull someone random off the street. Blindfold them. Take them into a listening room. Explain nothing, no context what they are there for. Play music. A/B the wires. Don't tell them what you did with the wires. Ask them to describe the differences. They couldn't. How could they? They wouldn't  know what to listen for or have the vocabulary to describe.

This is a simple enough exercise for anyone to do. Have a friend come over (when it is safe to do so...) and have them swap out cables on your own set up and see if you can hear a difference. Leave the room, swap the cables, come back and listen. Repeat. Same music, same volume, same seating position,same everything, just different wires.

No one, is going to be able to prove anything to a naysayer with measurements or blind tests. It has to be tried in ones own system. But they will never try... 

And this of course requires that the system be good enough to reveal the subtle differences, otherwise, it's a waste of time.

anton_stepichev OP98 posts

04-29-2021 5:49am

dletch2
I have accused you quite clearly at least twice of misstating what I said, writing things you claimed I wrote, when that was not the case. I got tired of pointing it out.

Well well well.. Out of the four, there are already two left. I hope you understand that until you show where and how exactly i changed the meaning of your words, the accusation remain nothing more than libel. I'm waiting for proof.

Let me rephrase it. I did not accuse you. I proved that you did.  Yes you did libel.

Next thing is all known subjective tests including blind tests are designed to detect audible differences in the acoustic signal, but we already know that these differences do not exist.

So what else can we prove with blind tests in our situation?

Most people of normal functioning will make the leap that if you cannot identify an audible difference, then the audible difference does not exist. If that is not obvious, then there is no point in continuing. It is called placebo effect. You convince yourself there should be a change, so you find one (in your head). But there is no change.

No one, is going to be able to prove anything to a naysayer with measurements or blind tests. It has to be tried in ones own system. But they will never try...

And this of course requires that the system be good enough to reveal the subtle differences, otherwise, it's a waste of time.

Unless it's a proper controlled blind test the whole thing is a waste of time.  

I don't do blind tests on everything I buy but I don't make blanket statements that something definitely sounds better,   especially cables. I have preferences for the sound I like it's why I use DSP and room treatments. What constitutes a "good enough " system?  I am also amused by the claim , "But they never try...". How else do you think bias has been shown to affect decisions unless it's been tried?