What percentage of audiophiles use a sub ?

BTW, Jax,

You asked about room position and the 80hz suckout. My understanding is that this response dip is usually due to 1/4 wave cancellation and is a function of the speakers' distance from adjacent walls. Subs can be placed flush to the wall which increases the frequency of the cancellation and reduces the severity of the effect - usually making it fairly benign. So unless you're willing to put your full range speakers right against the wall, changing the speakers' placement within the room is unlikely to do the trick.

Marty

Misstl - I only meant "extraordinary" in that the crossover point is probably a full octave higher than most standalone subs would more likely crossover at. Highly satisfied with my system, but still struggling with the room.

I've also included comments that reflect my past experiences with integrating standalone subs. Again, I've felt whether or not the range of the instrument dropped to the depths the sub was capable of, the sound occurred to me as different from without the sub on some occasions when I took the time to actually compare. Again, expectations could have come into play there. I've also had some struggle with integrating subs well, that made me want to scrap the whole thing. I don't think it's particularly easy.

Given the lack of the brick wall that you described, why wouldn't that be clearly understandable that such an effect were possible?

Marty - I have EchoBusters Phase 4 bass traps (discontinued I believe), in each corner behind my speakers, as well as some diffusion and absorption panels. They've made some audible differences, but where the peaks and dips are concerned, hardly any in the major suckout region.

Given the lack of the brick wall that you described, why wouldn't that be clearly understandable that such an effect were possible?

The question is not whether it is clearly understandable, but what does one do about it?

There are multiple complexities at work. Not only is there the selection of the crossover frequency and slope between the subs and speakers, but one also has the issue of phase interaction since the speaker driver will be in a different physical spot than the sub. The sub and speaker may be additive at one frequency and subtractive at another. Move the distance between them and that may change.

The room's interactive nodes are a related, but separate issue.

Since there are multiple variables in play, what helps fix one problem may aggravate another. Hopefully that gives a bit of insight as to why some sub integrations are more successful than others.

"Done Right", is the key, being challenged physically, from an accident; I live in an apartment. I have for many years,
not by choice.With a total of 4 sub-woofers, 3 Velodyne in my main set-up.One is a 18", the other two are 15"'s.
With music around me, there is simply no need to "crank" the
volume.In All the years, never 1 single complaint from anyone.My neighbor is a 94 year old lady.
Even with Movies, I never need to worry about offending anyone.My computer audio, is not bad, I use a JBL small unit, thatis fine, but, is in no shape or form, even in the same class as the Velodynes.
From the moment I first heard a Velodyne, I loved how it
integrated with the mains, without making itself known at all! I Love Bass, but not when it is "boosted" to where,
it is obvious, a sub-woofer is present.
When folks leave, and say "I never knew You had 3 subs.! much less, even 1!" That is what I like to hear.
Now, several times, I have had the neighbors ask, if I felt"the Earthquake earlier?"or if I heard any "gunfire"? I just look surprised...

I Love Music!

I have a pair of very well integrated ACI Titans. Awesome. No interference with mains at all. Only augment LFs for complete satisfaction of 2-channel music. You'd never know they're used, unless you turn them off. Properly integrated such that they do not mess up sound from mains and their physical presence is unlocatable.