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What's the deal with idler turntables and do they have a place in modern HiFi?

After going through a complete overhaul of an AR XA I've been tempted to take a step further back in history and restore an old Rek-O-Kut idler turntable. Can't remember the particular model number from Craigslist, but it seems like it may be an interesting project and far more customizable than the XA, especially when it come to the tonearm. The one I'm looking at comes with the original tonearm, but my guess is that it's even more garbage than the stock XA 'arm and I'd certainly replace it!

However, I don't generally become invested in something if it doesn't pay off. So if the sound is going to be dreadful because it's an idler, then I'll steer clear. But if the sound is bitchin' then I'll jump on the opportunity!
128x128mjperry96
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cleeds
5,944 posts
 
harold-not-the-barrel
Stylus drag is surprisingly strong, platter´s very high mass helps but does not eliminate it.

I'm with Thom. There's absolutely no measurable or audible slowing of a turntable platter caused by "stylus drag" if the platter is of sufficient mass and the rest of the turntable is properly designed.

Of course, if you're using one of the common, cheap, lightweight turntables, then I suppose it's possible.
totem395
390 posts
 
cleeds
There's absolutely no measurable or audible slowing of a turntable platter caused by "stylus drag"

This was talked to death in the Sutherland Timeline thread.
Not measurable was put to rest forever.
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cleeds
5,944 posts
 
totem39573 posts.
Regarding "stylus drag" affecting the speed of  a properly designed turntable with a platter of sufficient mass:
Not measurable was put to rest forever. This was talked to death in the Sutherland Timeline thread
You're clearly mistaken, because there are two people in this very thread who have contrary evidence. One of them is Thom, a turntable designer. As for myself, I've actually made the measurements, rather than just relying on others' opinions.

It's easy to understand if you think about it. So-called "stylus drag" is a deviation that would be measured in fractions of a gram. If you consider a 22-pound platter spinning on a low friction bearing, it's pretty far-fetched that such a tiny change in force could have such a big effect.

I've even tested this with the Telarc 1812 LP, which has some of the most heavily modulated grooves ever pressed on LP. Note that this is also on a turntable that uses a threaded reflex clamp; that eliminates the chance of the disc itself slipping on the mat, which of course would skew the result.

To be clear, I don't doubt that this is a problem with some LPs on some turntables. And LP playback is surely fraught with challenges. But the effect of stylus drag on platter speed? That's a solvable problem.
thom_at_galibier_design's avatar
thom_at_galibier_design
729 posts
 
I will say this, as far as measurements are concerned. At present, my best tools are the Feickert Pro software and a Timeline, and I’m not seeing any effect (can’t directly measure music with the Feickert, unfortunately). I’ll leave it open to the possibility that at a finer level of resolution, there may be a drag effect, but somehow, I doubt it.

Remember that speed changes occur in varying time domains. At the finest level of granularity, we hear it as distortion. If you’ve never read the IAR review of the Rockport Sirius, the first page of this lengthy tome is a good read for an analog-file. Worst-case, it will cure your insomnia ;-)

http://www.iar-80.com/page12.html

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier Design
harold-not-the-barrel
895 posts
 
Here´s Teres Audio´s article about http://www.teresaudio.com/manuals/teres_speed_tech.pdf
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