Lew,
I don't have any carts which want more than 8g of VTF. Even then, I don't have many records which could deal with that cart (meant for old monos). But that cart is a wonderful one when I can use it.
I came up with the same "75%" number as you did, but it isn't close. The number is quite low for such a big torque stat. That "XXXg with no impact on speed stability" 'stat' was one of the ones firms used to bandy about to show how strong and stable their motor was. For the L-07D, the figure is 120g. For the P3 and DP100 it is supposed to be 1500g. Most tables in the 6-7kg of torque area are 200-250g.
Interesting though is that the startup speed of 0.3 seconds is similar to the SP-10Mk2, Mk3, P3, etc.
I guess someone will have to get one and take it apart to see... You first.... :^) I'm trying to slim down on the table front. |
Hey T, Do you like to track at 100 gm? Just kidding. If their torque figure is accurate, then the max VTF before speed variation should calculate out to be just about 75% of the value given for the SP10 Mk2, which has 6 kg/cm torque, if memory serves. And memory is a bitch sometimes. |
Lew,
I saw that data tidbit once but I cannot remember where. I kind of ignored it at the time because the specs also said "if you apply up to 80g of VTF then there will be no speed change" comment whereas the SP-10Mk2 is probably close to 6-8x that amount, if not more, and the really big TTs are more like 1500g. That said, the start-up to 33.33 is quite fast so it is not impossible. It might be an interesting thing to try. |
Torque of DP500M motor = 4.5kg/cm. That's impressive and up there with the SP10 Mk2. DP500M chassis remounted in a better plinth with an upgraded tonearm might be quite something. |
The DP-500M is not a bad table at all. In fact, I like it better than the Technics SL1200. The tonearm in the DP-500M is a joke, a lot of plastic flimsy parts. The table, however, is well built, elegant looking(higher WAF than most), and has very smooth sound. The drive system is a departure from the vintage Denon that it does not use a tapehead to regulate speed. It uses an optical disc underneath the motor for the servo. Pretty clever. Overall, it's fine table for the price..... except the arm.
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Don't know why the DP500M is so unloved, but the Technics certainly stands as a best buy, by all accounts. (I own vintage types.) |
10-06-10: Lewm
Johnny, Do you use the 500M? If you do, and if you like it, then fine. ... Nope. I was answering the OP's original question about an available, affordable Denon DD (I presume) turntable. Denon has a new $2500 anniversary model out there, but since he was wanting something well under that, I figured the next best bet (unless you stumble onto a 25-yr-old one in excellent shape) would be a DP 500 M. To answer your question, I have a Technics SL1210 M5G (upgraded tonearm wire) that I bought for $500 when they were plentiful. I've done some aftermarket tweaks, most very inexpensive and all aimed at dampening and controlling resonances (mat, feet, trough, headshell, arm wrap, isolation platform). I cannot believe how good this turntable can sound. I go to my local Brit-oriented high end shop and come away largely unimpressed by their Regas and Roksans. Not that those aren't good 'tables, but they don't tempt me to change rigs in the least. A couple years ago I was thinking of getting a Denon DP 500M, but the A-goners familiar with it implored me to stick with the Technics. I'm really glad I did, but am sorry that its continued production no longer fits Matsushita's business model. |
Johnny, Do you use the 500M? If you do, and if you like it, then fine. But others have roundly criticized its quality of construction and performance here and elsewhere. However, Denon did just start to market a souped up audiophile version that might be interesting. In the main, however, the best Denon tables are vintage, IMO. It will be interesting to see whether the DP500M or its upscale counterpart can draw the attention of SL1200-lovers, now that SL1200 is discontinued. |
I missed the memo when Denon discontinued the DP 500M, but I found a couple of vendors who still have them at around the old retail price. |
The DP75 on Hifido may be gone by now, but I would jump on it if I were you. You get a high class tonearm in the bargain, which is why I would bet it has already sold. Hifido is good about shipping to US or other. |
Thanks for all the help guys, I think I am gonna try and find a DP-80 and have it electrically restored with a slate plinth. If anyone knows where one is for sale I'm all ears. |
http://www.denon100.com/#/en/products/turntable |
I own a Denon DP80 on a DK-2300 plinth and I can tell it is a fist class turntable indeed. |
I have a DP-62 and it is quite a good large heavy TT. But with the Denons that have interchangeable arms, be sure to try to get the accessories. Mine has a straight arm, an S arm, and several interchangeable counter-weights. Wrong weight might make it impossible to balance the cart you have. The S arm has interchangeable headshell capability, so if you want to swap carts it saves alot of pain. The straight arm is nice but you gotta remount each cart on it. Very nice quiet TT with perfecto speed consistency. |
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Electrically restored DP80 in a slate plinth is in the same ballpark with an electrically restored Technics SP10 Mk2 in a slate plinth, and the Denon is much less expensive for some mysterious reason. I own both. Electrical work on Denon includes replace all electrolytic caps, upgrade some transistors (there are modern equivalents with better performance and reliability), evaluate function of the one IC in the circuit. If IC is bad, replacement part is available. All of that work was done for me by a pro for less than $300. DP75 mentioned by T is pretty much the same animal as DP80. I also added damping material to the underside of the decorative ring that surrounds the platter. Otherwise, the ring rings. |
I disagree with Buconero as to shipping NECESSARILY damaging tables, but I do agree that it needs to be undertaken with great care. All tables were shipped from the factory at some point. Even when 'hand-delivered' from the factory to your home, what does that mean? Was it carried in a sling hanging from a bendy pole by two men? Was it carried by one guy? (I tried to carry a heavy TT once about half a mile from the guy's house to mine. I took the platter out but it still weighed close to 20kg. I threw my back out because of the way I was carrying it.
Shipping a table is a matter of care. Find someone who cares and you'll be fine. |
Do a denon 47F with a 160 cartridge, but only if you can pick one up, not shipped. That way it will work. Shipping, regardless of packing will damage the unit. |
Dear Johnyakimo: Agree with T-bone. Look for the DP-80 or DP-75.
About tonearm/cartridge there are a lot of options and depend mainly on your budget for them.
Regards and enjoy the music,
Raul. |
I am not sure how to "match" a Denon TT to the AVR-5803A and DVD-5910 but if you are looking for the brand, the best quality for non-stratospheric prices are the highest numbers you can find under 100 (i.e. 80, 75, then lower), then the somewhere between the 75 and lower I would put the 7000 and 6000 and then revert to the sub-100 numbers.
I'm not sure what "attainable" translates to in numbers, but I would expect you can find what you want for a fair bit less. The only one which should be truly out of that league these days is the DP-100/100M which is going to be a fair bit north of your "unattainable" bogey. |
