@elizabeth
I have experimented with my system and can say there are amny things that contribute to lean sound. So the problem may partly be the speakers inherent nature, however there are plenty of things that an accentuate the problem.
I agree on #4, no power conditioners. They cannot fix a difficiency in an amplifier's design. The resistance of the series chokes adds to the resistances in the primary circuit. They add yet another power cord and socket,more resistance. Here we are trying to lower the resistance in the primary and then go and add perhaps more than we have subtracted. Do any power conditioners give their effective series resistance? |
Former Merlin VSM owner. The Merlin's do a lot of things right and they can be very seductive but their lean bass drove me nuts. I went down a similar path that your are now traveling and I can tell you how it will end.....with a Merlin for sale ad here on Audiogon.
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Just fired up the Joule electra 100 amps. Wow- what a sound!
Im starting to be happy. I think the Merlins are an acquired taste... But the 15" Sub i bought definitely helps for real earth shaking when needed. I just need to add the EQ for some sweetening and im a happy camper. |
OK- The Joules Electra 100’s and the Merlins are the F&^%$n combination.
It sounds RIGHT!
This is a marriage that did not go sour. Wow! |
@drumbeatCongrats on the Joules!! Curious what type and brand of output tubes does it comes with? I ask because I've seen replies stating 6550 - KT88 etc (myself included). When I mentioned TS 6550 solid plate vintage I did because they are very warm sounding. SED 6550 on the other hand are very linear where the SED KT88 is very warm. Vintage GEC KT88's are also a very linear and clear sound. Current production Gold Lion KT88 are in the middle leaning slightly leaning toward a linear sound. What I'm trying to say is you can't state a type of tube (6550/KT88) has a specific sound characteristic.
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@xti16 All Joule-Electra power amplifiers (excluding the very few hybrid integrated amps Joule made which were solid state ouput) used the Russian 6C33 output tube. Most all were made in the Soviet era IIRC.
Rich
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@signaturesound
Guess I should have looked at the specs for the amp first but at least I got share my impressions of some of the different output tubes I have.
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@xti16 Nothing wrong with sharing your impressions! Lots of nice 6550/KT88 tubes (new and old) types to chose from - I hear some of the new production (reproduction?) stuff being made today is quite good.:-)
With the 6C33 all we got are those tubes mostly made in the Soviet era by a few different facilities in Russia... fortunately its a pretty good souding tube (IMO) in general, so the best bet for tube rolling in a Joule amp are the front end tubes (6922, 5751, 6350)
Rich |
I just rolled out some well matured Brimar 6L6GCs and put in some lightly used Valve Art KT66s.
The Brimars sound raunchier but a little lean.
The Valve Arts have a much better bottom end but sound airier as well. These will be staying put for quite some time I'd say.
Hope this helped.
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If you must keep the speaker then try Cary 805 or Jadis!
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I owned the Merlins at one time. They sounded very good with Quicksilver Audio M80 el-34 tube amps. |
I agree on #4, no power conditioners.
They cannot fix a
difficiency in an amplifier's design. The resistance of the series
chokes adds to the resistances in the primary circuit. They add yet
another power cord and socket,more resistance. Here we are trying to
lower the resistance in the primary and then go and add perhaps more
than we have subtracted.
Do any power conditioners give their effective series resistance?
@ramtubesNot all power conditioners are the same!! However most offered to high end audio seem to be so much junk. There are some that have no series chokes at all, but still are able to provide a pure sine wave at full power, which can be quite a lot. You might want to take a look at some of the Elgar power conditioners like the 3006 series and you will see what I mean. |
Duder, I own the VSM-BM
I changed the speaker wire. 3rd time was a charm Also be aware of the recording. Run the BAM on battery this helps
4% better ( that's a Bobby thing %% )But I forget to use it a lot or forget to switch it back
Not sure how old the post is.
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I'm probably one of the former JE 100 mono users that tubegroover is speaking about. I owned RM9 Mk1(serial 016) from late 80's until early late 90's. Roger updated it and I was quote happy. RM9 Mk1.5 was an excellent match wit the Merlins in every iteration Bobby P (RIP) produced.
I then ran down the OTL rabbit hole, first with Berning Zh 270 stock and then heavily modded, unique it every sense of that word, but it could never deliver the dynamic contrasts I feel are necessary.
Couple of years passed, and next the JE 100 monos in Music Wood. Excellent sound, little noisy and fussy but man they delivered musical textures, contrasts & nuances like no other. But then of course there was the heat.....and anyone who's ever owned them understands...yea, the heat...My dedicated room (20x14) 4 months a year (summer) was unlistenable. Windows open, fans, the AC was the only cure and even then still very, very warm.
The JE needed service. Jud was in transition and my original idea was to purchase a MR RM 10 as a 'summer amp" to drive the speakers and use while Signature Sound serviced the JE.
2010, I Called Roger, the RM10 "sort of" worked but not well with the Bam in the circuit. Roger had a rebuild of RM9 Mk II and a RM9SE available. I auditioned the SE and immediately was seduced with its magical midrange, effortless reproduction and its solid well built quality. Mark that amp SOLD!!
After the JE 100 came back from repair from Rich at Sig Sound, I A/B the two amps over the next 10 months and the JE were put up for sale and sold quickly. 8 years later and I couldn't be happier back in the RM9 camp. The SE is a statement piece. Hand built like a fine watch, point to point wiring, hand wound transformers and a way to check each and every tube with a volt meter to trouble shoot if there are any issues. Built to last a lifetime.
If you made it this far, thanks for reading!
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If you are rich try Jadis. If budget an issue try Cayin or PrimaLuna
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Thanks. Went with Joule Electra.
Sounds great. A bit noisy and a bit fussy but worth it for now. When summee comea ill need to replace them with cool running amps but for nyc winter they double as my space heaters. |
The very first amps that came to mind were:
Dynaco ST70
Conrad Johnson MV55 (I owned that for quite a while - very warm, rich tube sound).
And, believe it or not...an Eico HF81!
They are astonishingly magical little 14W amps that *sound* much bigger and tend to fill out the region you want to fill out. They are lush, yet still have sparkle and snap. I have an Eico and every time I put it in my system it really tugs at my loyalty to my bigger CJ Premier 12s.(I've used the Eico to drive everything from small monitors, to big floor standing Thiel 3.7s, and brutal low sensitivity MBL omni monitors, and everything has sounded fantastic).
They tend to run from around $250 for "just out of the trash can" condition but still working, to $1,200 if it's been refurbished and spiffed up (and anything in between). But even the out-of-the-trash Eicos can sound fantastic (my pal has one too).
There's one on audiogon right now for $250. You could grab it to see if it does anything for you, and if it grabs you, then there's an upgrade path.
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Ah...just noticed dumbeat already made his choice.
"never mind...." ;)
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Joule amps have been called many things, but lean is certainly not one of them. They would add what you are looking for, in spades, while also preserving solid bass, and dynamics. |
I bet CAT amplification would sound great with Merlins |
@tzh21y CAT amps do sound great with Merlins. I have heard the combo several times (Merlin and CAT demo’d Together at shows HiFi shows in the mid 2000’s) and I know of at least one VSM owner off the top of my head who has CAT amp on his Merlins.
Joule Electra OTLs also sound pretty darn great on Merlins too (you are right @nightfall certainly not lean) :-) I know there are plenty of folks out there still using Joule gear on Merlins.
Rich
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Hey Joneil, thanks for that update! As from others as well, the Music Reference are next on my on my radar if ever again the itch rears it’s head. Love my Quicksilvers for now and possibly ever as it seems you are with your RM9s, ain’t life grand!
Roger, David Berning, Ralph Karsten and Mike Sanders have been at this for decades, dilligently improving their designs with each personally involved. This is what I place value on when considering any audio product, personal committment from the owner/designer. |
Anything that uses EL-34 power tubes .
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Art Audio Jota HC 300BXLS SET. This high current amp will have plenty of power with sweet SET character. |
"A word about Bobby RIP. I think he was a total genius, and i admire his speakers."
I agree. |
In the case Of Merlins, they really like Cardas. Bobby really loved the Cardas Clear SE and Golden Reference both in interconnect and speaker cabling. Also, JPS labs Superconductor and Aluminata. |
Hey Tubegroover, great to hear from you! All good here less that "bug" I have to try the Joseph Audio Perspectives in my set up. This will probably pass as they fortunately/unfortunately (take your pick) seldom come onto the used market. I'll take 2 aspirins and chill-out. :-)
Your Quickies are built like tanks an are lifetime keepers. Your in great shape.
Concourr with your sentiments about designers driven by continued design improvements and their products integrity. They are the brands to own IMO as well.
JE & Merlin owners can rejoice and rest assured having rich @Signature Sound to carry the torch for these brands. Besides his EE background, he's very knowledgeable with both product lines and been there from the get-go with Bobby & Jud Barber. No one is more qualified to be in this postion than rich
Disclaimer: I have know rick for 20 years and done and will do future business with him for this reason alone although he's also a good dealer and fair and honest person to deal with. Also, characteristics of people we all enjoy doing business with on a continued basis.
Happy listening and have a great 2019.
Jim
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