Which would you choose; Pass 250.8, arc 75SE or luxman m900u?

@guyl - good to know you found the move from X250.5 to Ref 75 rewarding! Perhaps I should consider that move. I spent so much time talking to ARC and Pass before I made the decision to pair my Ref 5 SE with the X250.5 I was initially discouraged by the 20K min required i/p impedance that ARC expects. They pretty much said that thats a statement that isnt necessarily valid anymore. Apparently the ref 5's o/p impedance doesnt swing much beyond 1500 ohms and a 20K i/p imedance on the Pass was more than sufficient. Curious - what improved when you went from X250.5 to Ref 75? Thanks!

@hk_fan, so dealers are D-bags yet owners are not for engaging in the same activity? It seems to me that the manufacturers and dealers who engage in self-promotion are not guaranteed any product sales for doing so.  

Certainly you can see the difference between a consumer who has a different opinion and a dealer trying to hard sell the OP, right?  If you can't then you may want to spend some time thinking about it.

And I’m sure the OP (or any other causal reader) can discern that, too. You seem to discount the power of endorsement by an owner having spent hard-earned money on their gear. 

Quite the contrary, I do listen to those who have spent their hard earned cash on a product - like I have.  

I do not however trust a salesman who just picked up a new line that is suddenly the end all be all now that they carry it.  Where was all the praise for Krell before they could sell it to me?  That's where my BS detector goes off.

@pistha It's hard to describe but along with less heat (Pass amps are power hungry and I had to turn the thermostat down when the 250.5 was in system. no kidding ;-) ) the biggest change I heard is a fuller type of sound. Pass's midrange was sweet and clear but the mental image I had then when listening to my system was that there's was something missing, colors being washed out if I can use this picture analogy. Colors with the ARC were definitely fuller and more saturated in comparison (mid bass and midrange were definitely better). I could hear the synergy we are talking about. I guess one will get the same experience with running a XP10 with a X250.5. It's just that I had an ARC preamp not a Pass. Please note that I do not have a REF 75 SE. It's the regular version (not SE) but I replaced the KT120s with KT150s (big difference and part of the upgrade to SE). If you can get a factory SE, it's even better. Hope this helps, as I said it's hard to put in words all those differences but I purchased my REF 75 3 years ago and still remember my initial reaction when I hooked it up: "ahhhh got it!" I was -and am still - quite happy with my move. 

An owner endorsing gear they own is simply bias confirmation. That in of itself should trigger a red flag in the minds of prospective purchasers. Are such endorsements valuable? Sure they are. Are they more valuable than anyone else’s input? I doubt it. 

An owner endorsing gear they own is simply bias confirmation.

@celander   I get your point, but what do you recommend?

It's a journey for most of us that [hopefully] moves our understanding and knowledge forward. Sharing where one is, at that point in time, and the choices made along the way [for better or for worse] seems reasonable and fair. 

David, I simply recommend taking all the input to heart. And factor in bias to the extent possible. The closer the owner’s gear setup is to mine, the more I’m likely to weigh that contributor’s input favorably for the reasons set forth below.

Here is the problem as I see it. We all have different listening environments. We all have different gear setups, ranging from power conditioning (or not) to power cables to IC’s to gear and speaker cables (if needed for those not having active speakers, like I do for my ATC SCM20-2A’s which I love owing to their compactness) to speakers.

When I make posts to threads about specific gear, like I have about Jay’s Audio CDT2 MK2 transport on TeaJay’s thread, I list all the gear and accessories used in my opinion. Regrettably, the biggest factor, the acoustic space, is left out for obvious reasons.

@celander I agree. We need more of what you are recommending and much, much more shared (including additional context) so that those reading can make choices, with higher degrees of confidence and informed processing. Very Well Said. Thank you!

Without wanting to engage in regurgitated info already posted, the OP will ultimately want to select one or two of these amps for audition in his home system. All we can do is provide informed guidance to him. 

I have the Pass Labs 30.8 amplifier (class A) and it sounds great for the pop and jazz music I listen to. If I listened to classical music I would probably own a tube amp. 

in all candor it’s always about the first watt quality. luxman and ref 75se have that in spades. then comes the mojo which they knock out of park. fwiw

I went yesterday and listened to the Luxman m900u amp and c900u preamp. The reason for this second visit to the dealer (Excel Audio in Newport Beach CA) was to determine if I needed to get the c900u preamp or if a lesser preamp with a DAC and room correction would work with the m900u amp. Something like the following preamp:

Anthem STR preamp
Linn SELEKT DSM
Lyngdorf 3400 (using only preamp section of integrated)

Long story short, I have changed my opinion of how to buy a system for my small room. Get the electronics before the speakers. The Luxman gear was so good that even with lesser speakers ($16K vs $5K) the sound was better with the Luxman.

I am even tempted to run the Luxman m900u + c900u with the KEF LS50’s I own if I cannot make a bigger speaker work without DSP. I was totally against using a monitor speaker because I wanted the bigger bass with the floor stander. However, that logic is out the window with the Luxman gear. Everything I played through them sounded special.

you may also want to try the dartzeel amplifier there is one available used here on audiogon (no I am not selling mine)....has the same special solid state but not solid state sounding qualities and if you can pick up used ends up being cheaper than the luxman....unless you can a bargain on the luxman new.....there is a recent newer version of the dartzeel but that is super pricey....the older one is upgradeable but upgrade pricey....anyway food for thought...obviously since you heard the luxman its the safer choice but unless you have bass hungry speakers almost universal acclaim of the dartzeel...btw I also own pass monoblocks 260.8 in a different system and they great too and run about 30 watts class A....I often dont go out of Class A.....can often find a demo version of that through reno hifi for about 11K which is pretty great deal....

Hi @yyzsantabarbara

I own the Luxman 507ux. I totally hear where you are going with this, since this amp did the same for me, but I do suggest that another way to extend your speaker’s range is great room acoustics. 

For a fraction of what you spent on your preamp/amp, I’d spend some money with GIK Acoustics. Great advice, and biggest bang for the buck.


Over and over I’ve heard good room acoustics make speakers sound bigger and better.


Best,

E

Jump on a Pass 250.8 great sounding amp.

@erik_squires I already have the GIK acoustics treatments and they transformed my room in an incredibly positive way. However, I was trying to be audacious and put in a big floor stander into my very small room. Thus the investigation into DSP preamps to go along with the GIK treatments. However, like I mentioned above the Luxman was so good that I will get that first and fit the speakers afterwards. I most likely won’t be able to fit in a floor stander. I will try with a home demo of the Paradigm Person 3F but in the likely case it won’t work there are many monitors that I can select.

So farI have heard the following monitors that would fit my room which I think sound good to great:

Harbeth - https://harbeth.co.uk/special-editions/c7es-3.php
KEF LS50 or REFERENCE 1
TAD ME1

A lot more choices available that I have not contemplated since I have been looking at floor standers prior to my eureka movement with the Luxman’s.

BTW - I have not spent any cash yet on my system. So glad I did not since I would have gone a different way prior to my Luxman audition.

Luxman in the blink of an eye.