Why do Tube Amps sound more romantic v SS amps


Question newbie on tube amps, why are tube amps according to people who own them say the sound is more say romantic sound vs SS amp ? 

What is better to own cost wise sound advantage single ended and push pull ?

Thanks guys excuse my inexperience on the tube issue.

128x128aseaman007

Morning all,

When I first wrote the post I knew the word romantic wasnt the right choice but that was all that came to mind. The better word should have been soothing mello tone flavor, but in all my audio journey Ive never heard a tube amp even to this day except on youtube posts not the same. So all Ive read is from others with tube amps and their descriptions on tubes.

Why Im sticking to SS amps is my brother and son both play guitars so from the supply issues and cost of tubes is why Im staying with SS amp.

Thxs all very interesting replies especially the one about grabbing the tubes and feeling oh so romantic. 🤣

To understand the dichotomy in tube versus solid state one must start forty or more years ago. Back then virtually all solid state was lean, trebly, and hard sounding. Tube equipment was warm and rolled off the treble and was wooly in the bass.

This statement is false. 65 years ago Harmon Kardon made the Citation 2 and a few years later the Citation 5, both of which had 100KHz response. The ’softness’ in the high end of tubes is correct. The brightness of solid state isn't- and is caused by distortion.

Generally speaking there has been a failure in the industry to recognize that the ear converts distortion of any kind into tonality: hence the 2nd harmonic imparts ’warmth’ and unmasked higher ordered harmonics as often experienced in solid state gear imparts harshness and brightness. The other inconvenient truth about the ear is that it uses the higher ordered harmonics to sense sound pressure.

These harmonics also have a lot to say about how instruments sound; if additional harmonics are present the ear will perceive things as being brighter than real life.

Tube amps generally have more higher ordered harmonic content than solid state amps do, but because of the ear’s masking principle (where a louder sound masks the presence of a quieter sound) their prodigious 2nd and 3rd harmonic mask the higher orders, allowing the amp to sound nice and smooth.

In case its not obvious the primary sonic differences between tubes and solid state, their ’sonic signature’, is really their ’distortion signature’.

If you could build a solid state amp with the same distortion signature as a tube amp, it would sound like a tube amp. That sort of thing is really hard to do with conventional A/AB solid state amps. But apparently it is possible with class D, since in some class D amps the things that cause distortion tend to create lower ordered harmonics (not talking about all class D amps, as they seem to have more variability in sound than tube amps do).

FWIW dept.: triode tubes are the most linear amplification devices known. So you might wonder what it is that tube amps tend to have more distortion. The answer is that tube amps tend to run less feedback as they have less overall gain, being a far simpler design. If you were able to have enough gain and therefore be able to run enough feedback the tube amp would sound just like a solid state amp.

Feedback is playing an enormous role!! One thing that limits feedback in conventional solid state amps and all tube amps is something called ’phase margin’ where if too much feedback is applied, at some frequency due to phase shift in the circuit the feedback is positive rather than negative. If this frequency is exceeded (for example due to harmonics caused by distortion) the phase margin is exceeded and so the amp goes into oscillation.

Another problem faced by all tube amps and most solid state amps is that of having enough gain and bandwidth to support the feedback. If it does not, feedback decreases with frequency at what is effectively a turnover point, usually at a higher frequency. This causes distortion to rise with frequency which is a recipe for harshness and brightness.

In addition, feedback is usually applied to a non-linear point in the amplifier, possibly the cathode of the input tube or the base of a transistor paired with an input transistor. This means the feedback signal is distorted before it can do its job, and so will add distortion of its own. It is for this reason the feedback has got a bad rap in high end audio.

Class D does offer some ways around these issues. Because it is very easy to get a high gain/bandwidth product, feedback can be supported at all audio frequencies, preventing brightness and harshness. If the amp is of the ’self-oscillating’ variety, you can add so much feedback that the amp goes into oscillation as soon as its turned on. The oscillation is then used as the switching frequency. By this method you can run quite a lot more feedback without it causing so many problems per conventional designs.

As a result you can have a class D amp that is as smooth as any tube amp, but with the greater neutrality (otherwise, without the brightness and harshness) of traditional solid state- best of both worlds.

 

+1 "Tube Amps sound more romantic” “romance" cost a lot of money though :-)

I disagree on comparing all tube amps to all SS amps ! There are amazing sounding/performing/powerful SS amps! I saw some very good tube amp products, simple and genius as well! In general, SS amp aging stabilizes after about 100hr run time, while tube amp aging never..  

1) tube amp sound changes almost every 50hr due to tube emissions degradation, bias-balance degradation., accelerated resistor/capacitor aging, etc

2) most of good “coloration” (aka tube amp specific distortions) of tube amp caused by tube's type, tube aging condition, output transformer problems such as core-magnetics-linearity-inductance-mutual and actual-resistance-inter-coil capacitance, linearity in the of tubes’ used, and regular bias-balance adjustment. 

tube amp sound changes almost every 50hr due to tube emissions degradation, bias-balance degradation., accelerated resistor/capacitor aging, etc

This statement is incorrect. Tube amps in general are far more stable than that! With our amps its quite typical to not have to adjust the DC Offset after several months of operation. Back when we had a Bias control on our amps (about 17 years ago) people made similar comments about the bias not needing adjustment. If the amp is any kind of quality, its made out of resistors and capacitors that take 3-4 orders of magnitude to age out, similar to solid state in that regard.

@jumia just not true.

Legato Unum – Sonner Audio

I have heard that most speaker designs are built to deal with solid-state amplifiers. Add that buying a tube amp does not flourish with modern day speakers.  Wish I could recall specifics as to why this is.  Maybe someone else does.

The Legato Series was engineered in a way that they can be driven by a small or large vacuum tube or solid state amplifier and easy placement or set up in a room. Sophisticated cabinet design utilizing one piece molded curve cabinet, state of the speaker drivers, and high quality crossover components work in harmony with our Symmetrical Panoramic design crossover network to deliver a natural sound, effortless micro and macro dynamics, huge soundstage with a sense of air around the musician and instrument while maintaining music emotion.

This series was created to deliver musical expression, huge soundstage and vivid imaging on a small foot print with a more attainable price point.