Why the fascination with subwoofers?

but why add a subwoofer to an existing audio system when they don’t always perform well, are costly, and are difficult to integrate with the many varied speakers offered.

This is a question I often have to ask before answering a poster's question about full range vs. sat/subwoofer systems, or adding a subwoofer to an existing system.


Fortunately, room correction matters and is getting better and more automated, so simple it's almost ready for cavemen.


On the other hand, honestly, half of all "audiophiles" have no ear at all and for them more is just better.

Additionally, why wouldn’t any audiophile first choose a speaker with a well designed bass driver designed, engineered and BUILT INTO that same cabinet? If anyone’s speakers were not giving enough tight bass, why wouldn’t that person sell those speakers and buy a pair that does have tight bass? 

A sub, well integrated, has a number of advantages. Can go deeper, can be optimally placed, and can be EQ corrected.


Going back to your first point, you are better off with a bass limited (45Hz or higher) speaker which is not going to wake the dragons, than a big speaker that can go low which you don't know what to do with.


Best,
E

I had been low-passing at 40 Hz using a pair of Velodyne HGS-10s with acoustic room correction by an SMS-1 to supplement a pair of KEF Ref 1s.  With some trepidation I recently introduced a fully balanced passive Marchand 80 Hz 24 dB/octave filter between the Ayre KX-5/20 and VX-5/20, reset the subs to 80 Hz 24 dB/octave, and reran acoustic room correction.  First consideration was that the filter do no harm to the Ayre sound, and it doesn't -- an active Bryston 10B had.  At first I doubted the filter had any perceivable effect, but with further listening to a wide variety of music I perceive more detail since the introduction of the filter.

If you have good speakers, you don’t want a sub-woofer. In my opinion, it “rapes”your music. 
I completely agressie with Millercarbon and Roxy54.
And , Kenjit: Human hearing is 20 hz-20 kHz for a your child. Till 18 kHz for a young adult. An older person: till 16 kHz.
subwoofers are not my cup of thee.

If you have good speakers, you don’t want a sub-woofer. In my opinion, it “rapes”your music.

A well integrated sub is a glorious thing. Absolutely amazing.


About 1% of all subwoofer systems I've heard were properly integrated. 

This is the problem. There's nothing inherently wrong with subs, it's how absolutely incredibly difficult it is to integrate them into the right room and with the main speakers unless :

1 - You have kick ass room correction/ calibration
2 - You are already a speaker maker.



Best,

E

Hello 2pyop,

I think a better question is why would anyone expect 2 full-range floor standing speakers, no matter their quality or price, to be able to provide both good bass response and good midrange/treble response at a designated listening seat when the low frequency sections of the speakers are not able to be independently positioned in the room. This makes as little sense to me as the use of subs apparently does to you.

It’s well known that bass soundwaves behave very differently in any given room than midrange/treble soundwaves will behave in the same room, mainly due to physics. The frequency of soundwaves are directly related to their length, the lower the frequency the longer the sound wave. This equates to a 20 Hz deep bass soundwave being 56 feet long and a 20,000 Hz treble soundwave being .056 inches long.

Humans are very adept at determining the originating location of midrange/treble frequencies but very poor at determining the originating location of bass frequencies at or below about 80 Hz. In other words, midrange/treble frequencies are very directional and deep bass frequencies are not.
All soundwaves, once launched, continue to move forward and bounce or reflect off any room boundaries (floor, ceiling, walls) they encounter along the way until they run out of energy. This regularly results in direct and reflected soundwaves meeting/colliding which causes frequencies to be perceived at these spots (called room modes) in the room to be exaggerated, attenuated or even cancelled.
Midrange/treble room modes are generally perceived as a sense of ’airiness’ and ’liveliness’ and the modes can be significantly reduced in any room via room treatment panels. Bass room modes are generally perceived as a sense that the bass is not smooth and natural and the modes can only be reduced, according to traditional thinking, via expensive and large bass trap room treatments.
There is another proven alternative method, however, that takes a very different approach called a distributed bass array (dba) that utilizes the principles of psycho acoustics to provide excellent perceived bass response throughout the entire room, not just at a single dedicated sweet spot. These complete dba systems can be purchased for $2,800 from Audio Kinesis as either the Swarm or Debra system. The main difference being the Swarm subs are a bit shorter and wider than the Debra subs.
Both systems include four 4 ohm subs with 10" aluminum long-throw drivers and a single class AB 1K watt amp that drives all 4 subs. The subs are strategically distributed within the room and their purpose is to create many bass modes (peaks, dips and nulls) in the room with the knowledge that our brains will process these numerous varying modes by averaging them out.
I’ve used the AK Debra dba system for about 4 years now. This concept works like a charm and provides bass that is very accurate, natural, detailed and smooth throughout my entire 23 x 16 x 8 foot room. It provides what I consider sota bass performance that is able to reproduce whatever bass the content calls for; rhythmic, taut and detailed bass for music as well as sudden, deep and powerful bass for ht and music. Here’s a review from the Absolute Sound on the A K Swarm system:
www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/audiokinesis-swarm-subwoofer-system/

Tim