ZYX Universe and Lyra Titan

Gmorris,

I think most of us get careless with the use of words like best sometimes. I can't believe that anyone has enough experience to pronounce what is the best cartridge. There are just too many possible combinations with tonearms. And the cost of doing so! In this case the question was between the Titan and the UNIverse. I was at the four day event that Doug Deacon went to where we compared the UNIverse with the Olympos. Honestly, this was just about the most scientific comparrison one could set up. The Olympos is a much more expensive cartridge than the Titan (might not mean much) but since we came so close to comparing the two cartridges aked about I find it fair to offer up our take on them. Ever since the first discussion about our findings were posted here we have been attacked pretty agressively. We weren't scientific enough, responded to peer pressure, and on and on. It's tiresome to see myself or someone I know well being attacked unfairly. You're welcome to send me an email for my phone number and call me if you want the details but I just don't feel up to typing that much. I can also give you some insight into how much I think Frank Schroder knows about these things. He's a very humble and pleasant person with an incredible sense of humor, knowledgable about many things. I'm 55 and have been into analog since the 60's. I certainly don't consider myself and expert on much but I have a very good set of ears with about as much live seat time as anyone. I consider myself to be quite bright too. Being around Frank and a group of other vinylheads for a casual dinner is a jaw dropping experience. Being with him for an entire, extra-long weekend was an honor. He probably wouldn't agree with that assessment but I was really humbled in so many ways. Certainly, he knows enough to make "arguably" one of the best pivot tonearms on the planet. If we can't offer up opinions asked of us then what is the point in posting? Some of the things said freely here, sitting behind a keyboard in total anonymity, would not be said to my face. Well, nowadays you could get away with it but you get my drift. Sorry for allowing my buttons to get pushed.

Lugnut:

I was not questioning your empirical observations in the comparison between the Olympus and the ZYX Universe. My comments were more or less directed at Retroinferno who unequivocally stated that the ZXYU was the "BEST" in the world.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers.

Dear Retroinferno/Lugnut: +++++ " Maybe they are the best that he has tried in his arms in his system. " +++++

I agree with Gmorris: that is all about. That does not means that those two cartridges are the " best " on the world, because other cartridges in the right tonearm can beat what Frank already heard.

For any body can do a serious comparation between differents cartridges the first step is to match each of those cartridges with the tonearm where they sound " the best ". Testing differents cartridges in the same ( one or two ) tonearm means almost nothing about which is better, you can have a lot of fun but that's all. The second step is to have a full range high resolution audio system: nothing less.

The reason why I own 15+ tonearms is because I want to match every single cartridge with the " best " tonearm for it: I'm not a tonearm collector.

From my 25+ cartridges I only already match six or seven and when you hear one of them and compare to the others 5-6 it is a very hard choice: all them are really great and you really have to be a live music expert to do the " best " choice. I'm sure that my choice could be different from your choice because: differents live music experiences, different music tastes, different ear frecuency response, etc, etc.

Regards and enjoy the music.

I listened to the Lyra Titan at the Auddiofest with the Brickman Table and Arm combination,and the ZYX Universe with the Teres Model 360 Table and I beleive the Schroder
Arm.
Actually both analog rigs sounded entirely different.
The Teres rig with the ZYX Univerese was a huge dissapointment.Here I was reading all of the posts on this untouchable cartridge for almost a full year and never actually hearing it for myself with my own ears.
I finally had the opportunity at the show and listened for a long time on the last day when very few people were around.
My background in the past has been a semi pro bass trombonist with The Skagit Symphony for the past 15 years.
My reference is live unamplified music.
Here are my notes from the show.
The ZYX Universe had no deep low bass information at all.
The cartridge is very colored sonically.The midband was quick,But tonally thin.The cartridge exhibited no layered depth of field,highs sounded closed in,dirty,no ambience retrevial around instruments pickup patterns.The top end also sounded closed in and bright.
The Lyra Titan had a natural wonderful extended top end.A huge holographic sound stage that extended very wide and deep.Ambient retrival was in a class by itelf.Midbass reproduction was natural,But still lacked proper fullness.
Deep bass was much better then the ZYX Univerese ,But still fell way short of my live reference standards.
Actually deep bass,midbass,and midrange reproduction I feel IMO or better reproduced on my Grado Reference The Reference Phono Cartridge then the other 2 above.This is using live music as the reference.

76doublebass,
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A few comments to add to your observations regarding the UNIverse cartridge:
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First off, the Teres Table (including a UNIverse cartridge and Schroder Reference tonearm) was paired with totally inadequate electronics and speakers in a woefully poorly set up room.
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Secondly, I don’t question your ability to hear and analyze what you have heard, but please tell me how you were able to sort out that the UNIverse cartridge was the problem with the sound from that room ?
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I was in the room 3 times and agree totally with you that the sonics were abysmal, but you cannot for one minute accurately compare and draw conclusions of the two cartridges from two different rooms and two different systems.
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One can only relatively accurately compare components when they are placed in the same system, in the same room, while listening to the same music, on the same day with everything but the component you are comparing held constant. Then and only then, can you make reasonable comparisons and draw rational conclusions.
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I am guessing that Chris Brady was far less than happy with having his table sitting in that room. He certainly could hear what we all heard. I would almost bet that you wouldn’t see a Teres table put in an inadequate setting like it was in Denver in the future. I would also assume that the Teres Room next year would have a Schroder Reference and a UNIverse unless something comes along this year that surpasses the UNIverse in what it can deliver throughout the frequency range. Chris could have put any tonearm or cartridge on his table and it would only make sense that he would pick what would sound best and portray his table in its best light.
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I have heard 3 different Teres tables on several occasions accompanied with the UNIverse cartridge and combined with either, a Schroder Reference, Graham 2.2, Triplanar 7, above average to great electronics and excellent speakers. Clearly, there was no part of the frequency spectrum lacking from any of these systems that had a UNIverse cartridge in them. The best combination for me was the Schroder Reference paired with the UNIverse on a Teres 360 table.
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You need to do yourself a favor and find a way to hear the UNIverse (Teres tables and Schroder Reference) in an adequate system. If you are planning to attend the RMAF in Denver again next year, look up the Teres room and report back in again. I think you will come back with a totally different impression. You could also contact Chris Brady and I am sure that he would be happy to have you come by for a demo of his tables (and a UNIverse cartridge) if you can make your way back to the Denver area before the RMAF next year.
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Rgds,
Larry