ZYX Universe and Lyra Titan

Lugnut:

I was not questioning your empirical observations in the comparison between the Olympus and the ZYX Universe. My comments were more or less directed at Retroinferno who unequivocally stated that the ZXYU was the "BEST" in the world.

Sorry to ruffle your feathers.

Dear Retroinferno/Lugnut: +++++ " Maybe they are the best that he has tried in his arms in his system. " +++++

I agree with Gmorris: that is all about. That does not means that those two cartridges are the " best " on the world, because other cartridges in the right tonearm can beat what Frank already heard.

For any body can do a serious comparation between differents cartridges the first step is to match each of those cartridges with the tonearm where they sound " the best ". Testing differents cartridges in the same ( one or two ) tonearm means almost nothing about which is better, you can have a lot of fun but that's all. The second step is to have a full range high resolution audio system: nothing less.

The reason why I own 15+ tonearms is because I want to match every single cartridge with the " best " tonearm for it: I'm not a tonearm collector.

From my 25+ cartridges I only already match six or seven and when you hear one of them and compare to the others 5-6 it is a very hard choice: all them are really great and you really have to be a live music expert to do the " best " choice. I'm sure that my choice could be different from your choice because: differents live music experiences, different music tastes, different ear frecuency response, etc, etc.

Regards and enjoy the music.

I listened to the Lyra Titan at the Auddiofest with the Brickman Table and Arm combination,and the ZYX Universe with the Teres Model 360 Table and I beleive the Schroder
Arm.
Actually both analog rigs sounded entirely different.
The Teres rig with the ZYX Univerese was a huge dissapointment.Here I was reading all of the posts on this untouchable cartridge for almost a full year and never actually hearing it for myself with my own ears.
I finally had the opportunity at the show and listened for a long time on the last day when very few people were around.
My background in the past has been a semi pro bass trombonist with The Skagit Symphony for the past 15 years.
My reference is live unamplified music.
Here are my notes from the show.
The ZYX Universe had no deep low bass information at all.
The cartridge is very colored sonically.The midband was quick,But tonally thin.The cartridge exhibited no layered depth of field,highs sounded closed in,dirty,no ambience retrevial around instruments pickup patterns.The top end also sounded closed in and bright.
The Lyra Titan had a natural wonderful extended top end.A huge holographic sound stage that extended very wide and deep.Ambient retrival was in a class by itelf.Midbass reproduction was natural,But still lacked proper fullness.
Deep bass was much better then the ZYX Univerese ,But still fell way short of my live reference standards.
Actually deep bass,midbass,and midrange reproduction I feel IMO or better reproduced on my Grado Reference The Reference Phono Cartridge then the other 2 above.This is using live music as the reference.

76doublebass,
.
A few comments to add to your observations regarding the UNIverse cartridge:
.
First off, the Teres Table (including a UNIverse cartridge and Schroder Reference tonearm) was paired with totally inadequate electronics and speakers in a woefully poorly set up room.
.
Secondly, I don’t question your ability to hear and analyze what you have heard, but please tell me how you were able to sort out that the UNIverse cartridge was the problem with the sound from that room ?
.
I was in the room 3 times and agree totally with you that the sonics were abysmal, but you cannot for one minute accurately compare and draw conclusions of the two cartridges from two different rooms and two different systems.
.
One can only relatively accurately compare components when they are placed in the same system, in the same room, while listening to the same music, on the same day with everything but the component you are comparing held constant. Then and only then, can you make reasonable comparisons and draw rational conclusions.
.
I am guessing that Chris Brady was far less than happy with having his table sitting in that room. He certainly could hear what we all heard. I would almost bet that you wouldn’t see a Teres table put in an inadequate setting like it was in Denver in the future. I would also assume that the Teres Room next year would have a Schroder Reference and a UNIverse unless something comes along this year that surpasses the UNIverse in what it can deliver throughout the frequency range. Chris could have put any tonearm or cartridge on his table and it would only make sense that he would pick what would sound best and portray his table in its best light.
.
I have heard 3 different Teres tables on several occasions accompanied with the UNIverse cartridge and combined with either, a Schroder Reference, Graham 2.2, Triplanar 7, above average to great electronics and excellent speakers. Clearly, there was no part of the frequency spectrum lacking from any of these systems that had a UNIverse cartridge in them. The best combination for me was the Schroder Reference paired with the UNIverse on a Teres 360 table.
.
You need to do yourself a favor and find a way to hear the UNIverse (Teres tables and Schroder Reference) in an adequate system. If you are planning to attend the RMAF in Denver again next year, look up the Teres room and report back in again. I think you will come back with a totally different impression. You could also contact Chris Brady and I am sure that he would be happy to have you come by for a demo of his tables (and a UNIverse cartridge) if you can make your way back to the Denver area before the RMAF next year.
.
Rgds,
Larry

Raul,

Back at you. You seem to totally ignore the fact that I've never said the ZYX UNIverse, or for that matter, the ZYX line is the best. Never. Hell, I would be foolish to post such a remark because I simply haven't heard all of the offerings. I've said repeatedly that tonearms and cartridges need to be evaluated together. I have explained to the best of my ability the strengths of the ZYX cartridges I am familiar with. I voted with my pocketbook what cartridge I felt was the best for me and my system.

Again, the poster asked for anyone that had experience with a UNIverse and a Titan to share which they thought was better. Unlike most people I have heard a comparison of something close to what he was asking; a comparison of a UNIverse and a Olympos. I gave my impressions. What the Hell is wrong with answering the man's question? I even said I would place heavy emphasis on the ultimate difference in cost because he had a Helicon to trade in.

You've made personal and ugly attacks on several of us for how we conducted our evaluations. Recently, I grew tired enough with your abrasive style to turn the questions around and ask them of you. You didn't respond. It's obvious this boils down to you wanting your opinion to be the only one considered. Sorry but that's not going to fly.

Further, I was more irritated with what I viewed as an unwarranted attack on Frank Schroder. That is what my criticism of Gmorris was about. I stated my objection, apologized for getting angry and he even offered up that his wife thinks he's kind of over the top in getting irritated by folks using the word best too loosely. I agree with him 100%. You have assigned guilt to me where it is undeserved. I await an apology for your remarks on this thread and some answers to questions asked of you on the other thread.

Perhaps you would be better served by having a little fun with audio as you accused us of doing. You sure suck all the fun out of trying to help a guy here with some insight that was very close to the question asked.

76doublebass, I agree with what you heard 100%. I also heard my identical Airy 3 in another room and it too sounded really, really bad. So bad, that I told the exhibitor that they would be better served by not playing analog at all.