Supporting Local Audio Stores are we?


I know, money talks, bullshi* walks...
But having owned an audio store for about a dozen years, I know how tough it is to 'make a living' for a mom and pop store, without some sugar daddy/momma in the background funding the enterprize.
So, I am wondering if the nice folks of Audiogon support local businesses?
As I stated, "Money Talks" and I get it, we all want the best 'value' for our money. The question is...when does the price versus local support begin/end. When does the follow up and or service/set up outweigh the raw savings?
To be clear, I am not talking fantastic discounts, but a few percentage points off retail. I remember a painful transaction that I had once, during which a customer had taken home a particular CD player two weekends running, only to purchase elsewhere because he 'saved' $53.00 (on a $500. item). OUCH!
I contended that without the long term audition, he had nothing on which to base his purchase? How does everyone else see this?
Right now, its obviously a tough financial climate out there, but looking to more normal times, I am wondering how many of the readers/writers of Audiogon would forego price for service/set up? OK, forget buying great used pieces for fractions of original retail, everyone must probably assume that that's good for everyone, including the dealers, as this frees up customers who are now, 'back in the hunt'.

It will be interesting to hear back, it's been some time since the Brick and Mortar (at least for me) question was aired out.

Best,
Larry
lrsky
I happen to think that higher-end sports and/or luxury cars are a very valid comparison to high end audio. Manufacturers lure you with great perceived "build-quality", fancy chassis, great sound sometimes, and dealers are occasionally snooty to most people, and almost certainly snooty to the unshaven guy in sweats who walks in on Saturday morning, but will be obsequious beyond belief to the guy who drives up in a Rolls. Most luxury cars are 96% the same as their rivals, and most sports cars measure their 0-60 speed within about a second of each other, and all are spec-ed out much better than most people could possibly make use of (lack of driving skills in cars, lack of room treatments in audio). And if you want absolutely the fastest thing out there (0-60 in the low 3-handle), you either buy from Bugatti Veyron for $1.5mil+, or you buy a weird car - an Ariel- the equivalent of the small mfr making an over-achieving amp cloaked in 'normal amp' looks. According to the dealer, the car is the be-all-and-end-all, and the buyer will be set for life, and blah-blah-blah. It costs far more than what is needed to be absolutely functional as a ride to work, and a couple of years later, there will be a Mark II, or a different model, and the only 'upgrade path' is to sell the older one and buy the newer one.

Tvad, Ferraris only "increase in value" when you drive them off the lot if they are the long-hyped new, new thing and there is a waiting list. A 5-year-old Ferrari is in only rare cases more expensive than it was retail. Something like a Ferrari Testarossa, 456GT, or older 355s now go for less than a third of original retail (I also happen to think that all three are fabulous cars for the current used price). After a certain point, well-cared-for examples become 'vintage' cars or 'classic cars' and start to appreciate again (witness the uptick in pricing for 308s and 328s), or occasionally they become stars and continue to appreciate above and beyond their inflation-adjusted original price (like the Ferrari 365GTB4).
But back on topic... My feeling is that it is a small market, and there are too many manufacturers. This means that dealers cannot carry enough brands for knowledgeable people, and carry too many to appropriately serve the people just starting out (lack of choice is a blessing sometimes).

We Audiogon habitues are 'bad customers' for B&M stores because we know what we want and in many cases we may have more experience, and more invested in what we really like, than the dealer, and certainly more than Lrsky's $10/hr college student. As people who do this because we like it, we spend more of our own money and time searching for information than is probably reasonable.

I might suggest that the model for metropolitan areas might be different than what we are used to... The model might be for manufacturers to supply demo equipment to a couple of dealers who split a listening room site. Dealers split up a large-ish factory building and outfit it with a dozen rooms with sound-proofing between them, Ikea furniture in most, and some nicer furniture in others (that can be sourced from local high-end estate auctions). Customers would be free to bring in their own equipment, and set it up on rolling racks prior to using the room. The rack(s) would be rolled in, stabilized, plugged in, and set in the first few minutes. Dealership staff would hook up the piece to be auditioned. If the rooms were set up well beforehand, speaker placement would likely be a snap, and concentric placement rectangles would be set up on the floor. Because the site is communal, rooms would be rented at some hourly rate in order to cover the cost of the site (maybe $10-20 an hour). Dealers would offer auditions of products they sponsor, along with customers' own equipment, for free if they want by putting their own money into the pot if they wanted to bring the customer in without him/her paying. There would be another set of rooms which allowed full dealer set-ups of 'recommended systems' at certain price ranges and those rooms would have rolling racks of equipment.

Rooms could be reserved (and pre-paid?) by internet. Rooms which had time-contiguous rentals would have a buzzer go off 5mins before the end.

Such a dealership set-up could act as a used equipment dealer as well I expect, with a place to audition if you wanted.

In return for the customer paying his audition fee, MSRP would no longer be sacrosanct on new products.

I obviously have too much time on my hands...
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The UK has an organisation called BADA (British Audio Dealers Association), it is a group of up market real audiophile shops that go that little but further to keep the customer satisfied and not sell anything that the customer does not like or need, there is no hard salesmen bullshit tactics, it is all easy and a relaxed atmosphere. They do not discount on the items they sell (If I remember correctly) as you are paying for their expert service, before, during and after the sale. The 'other sort' of hi-fi shops mostly located in Tottenham Court Road, central London, are the discount stores where you can barter the prices, but do not expect good customer service, and once you have left the store, or once the cash has been handed over, you are on your own.
The real king of cheap hi-fi is a shop called 'Richer Sounds', actually there are about 30+ richer sound shops dotted around the UK. The owner's policy is to get small premises in good locations, stack the shelves high, sell cheaply. If you have been to one of his shops it is about the size of a restaurant rest room here in the US, I kid you not they are tiny, no demo rooms (a few locations do but are so small literally only book shelf or diddy floor standers can fit in the space), the whole shop is just a room, a small room also. That's what the general public in the UK want, cheapness. When I was in the UK I was a regular customer of 'Grahams Hi-fi' shop, yes a member of BADA. No discounts off the MRSP, but the service was top notch. This was how good it was, I bought a 2nd hand Linn LP12, I was having a few problems with it, I took it there one Saturday morning, the Linn service chap spent about hour+, tinkling tweaking, adding the bits it needed that were not there and getting it all up and running sweetly, and they never charged me for their time. The turntable was a mess due to some home hi-fi DIY person (butcher more like).Graham's was the best shop I have ever been in.
A no pressure take your time kind of attitude.