Supporting Local Audio Stores are we?

The UK has an organisation called BADA (British Audio Dealers Association), it is a group of up market real audiophile shops that go that little but further to keep the customer satisfied and not sell anything that the customer does not like or need, there is no hard salesmen bullshit tactics, it is all easy and a relaxed atmosphere. They do not discount on the items they sell (If I remember correctly) as you are paying for their expert service, before, during and after the sale. The 'other sort' of hi-fi shops mostly located in Tottenham Court Road, central London, are the discount stores where you can barter the prices, but do not expect good customer service, and once you have left the store, or once the cash has been handed over, you are on your own.
The real king of cheap hi-fi is a shop called 'Richer Sounds', actually there are about 30+ richer sound shops dotted around the UK. The owner's policy is to get small premises in good locations, stack the shelves high, sell cheaply. If you have been to one of his shops it is about the size of a restaurant rest room here in the US, I kid you not they are tiny, no demo rooms (a few locations do but are so small literally only book shelf or diddy floor standers can fit in the space), the whole shop is just a room, a small room also. That's what the general public in the UK want, cheapness. When I was in the UK I was a regular customer of 'Grahams Hi-fi' shop, yes a member of BADA. No discounts off the MRSP, but the service was top notch. This was how good it was, I bought a 2nd hand Linn LP12, I was having a few problems with it, I took it there one Saturday morning, the Linn service chap spent about hour+, tinkling tweaking, adding the bits it needed that were not there and getting it all up and running sweetly, and they never charged me for their time. The turntable was a mess due to some home hi-fi DIY person (butcher more like).Graham's was the best shop I have ever been in.
A no pressure take your time kind of attitude.

01-11-09: Chadnliz
John, man up and clean that snot off your shirt!

That might be insulting if it came from a real man, considering the source, all I can do is LMAO.

I’m pretty sure those folks who can pony up the $$$$$$$$$ for Yachts & Bugatti’s aren’t too concerned with web sales of used audio gear. The one’s capable of laying out such copius amounts of money will continue to do so as the spirit moves them irrespective of current financial prosperity or woes. Speculative buyers, or collectors might well pull in their claws during such instances… or not.

Top tier stuff sells to an entirely different clientele. Dream systems aren’t bought by dreamers generally speaking.

When we were kids we’d all day dream out loud as to what we would own had we the $$$ for it. Eventually someone would opt for a Leer. Shortly thereafter another naysayer would chime in, “If you could buy a Leer jet, you couldn’t afford the gas for it! ”

I always thought if I could afford a private jet, gas would be the least of my worries.

When I was selling electronics, the owner of the building we leased dropped in to discuss the sale of it to us. This fella owned a goodly number of warehouses around the US. He was a car collector too.

He liked Fords especially. He had so many from the line, even FoMoCo would contact his ‘mechanics’ when another collector needed something special from an older model Ford he owned, such as a replacement part. His techs, upon approval, would pull the part off one of his cars, pack it up and send it to FoMoCo. FoMoCo would then fabricate several of this ‘sought out part’, sell the one in question, inventory another one or two, and send duplicates and the orig back to this ‘collector’.

As such, he’s never at a loss for new parts for his old cars.

Have your people call my people… we’ll do brunch sometime.

There are markets which will remain recession proof.

I think the list of buyers for the Hope Diamond, or Fabergee Eggs, were quite short… and financing was not discussed.

Uber expensive items aside… What continues to intrigue me is the ‘actual retail price’ of audio or video gear.

Just what is the actual price? MSRP?

I’ve always felt the ‘going price’ for a thing is simply what it can regularly be sold for.

Over inflation of a products list price is nonsense, and often laughable. Whatever it sells for in the end is it’s price. That’s it. Finis.

Any number of dealers or makers do submit to buyers a Yada Yada amp goes for $10K…. BUT they’ll sell it direct to you for $6K and avoid the middle man.

Hmmm. Then isn’t it worth only $6K?

For a thing to be worth $10K…. sales of it for that amount would be required to substantiate it… just saying it isn’t making it so.

Of course, those “people who have people” might have paid top dollar for it, though I seriously doubt it…. That’s why they have those “people’ around them.

No one, rich or poor, pays more than they can legitimately justify paying for a given thing.

The value of it is another story entirely.

I think that is where we find our own faults… we value certain electronic creations at times, more than needs be. You know… it’s one of them… Man! I just got to have that yada Yada preamp, or some such thing!

I’ve quit telling my friends what I pay for the stuff I get any more. … or anyone else for that matter.

I just tell ‘em to stay behind the yellow tape I have strung up about the rig and speakers, and don’t step on any cables, or touch anything… especially the remotes!

Oh, and yeah…. When they ask about my ‘antiques’, I say, “Yeah… They still make tube gear.”

Blindjim,
What an interesting perspective...a man of great intelligence.

Any product presented, meeting all the base requirements of a given market or human need have what is known as 'utility'. Utility, (going back in to distant memeory of Econ101), is explained as follows.
"A glass of water to a man floating in a crystal clear lake, has 'no value.' Yet the same glass of water is of infinite value to a man dying of thirst in a desert."

Ahhh...enter want v. need. (sounds like a Supreme court decision, no?)

We, all of us here 'want' the latest toy with the cool looking knobs and such, (oh hell admit it). I remember a great writer for one of the Paper Mags, saying one time that one of his guilty pleaures was looking at his system in the dark. (I'm thinking he was auditioning the latest tube system from Mssrs conrad and johnson). He stated categorically, that anyone who denies having done that is flat out lying.

So enter the hobbyiest notions of this 'pricing' discussion, with our interpretatins of 'fair and reasonable.'

How do we determine fair and and reasonable, and need versus want?

Abstract: "Hey Jack, I'm going to compress carbon under hundreds of thousands of pounds of pressure for several million years then present you with the results for your birthday. Want a 1 pound or 2 pound one of those?'
Jack not knowing of which he speaks says 'no thanks'.
Then, show his wife a picture of the result, under halogen lights and get HER answer.
In an audiophiles mind, that compressed carbon has 'infinite' value when we see it. (Think Farrah Fawcett's 1980's poster).
Since money is an elastic for us all, we, like Blindjims example pay whatever when we are flush. As the money contracts, we start to hedge, self mitigating our desire for said product. Then comes the chiseling of price.
Actually, it's none of our business what it costs to make a jar of Peter Pan Peanut Butter, or a gallon of milk from Deans. We only know we need them and buy them because they're food. Imagine going in a grocery and saying, "Hey would you take .59c for that jar instead of $2.59, I saw one on PeanutgoN for .45c. The can was still sealed and it had an acceptable expriation date (see warranty).

We ONLY bitch about pricing because this is a luxury commodity, and we ONLY bitch and care about margins because this is a luxury commodity.

I have sold to enough extremely wealthy folks to know this one thing. "They don't ask what the margin is." They want it to work, follow up, good service.

I'll never forget proposing the most expensive audio system I had ever fashioned together, to a neuro surgeon. I gave he and his wife three options, good, better and best, fearing the price, and thinking that I might scare him off. They studied the proposals for a while as I sweated. Then after what seemed an eternity, he asked, "If I buy this...(wait...wait...wait...) will it be better than Dr. XYX's system ?" (his best friend) exhale!



Jim Thiel and I were having dinner one night, and after a few glasses of vino, I said, "You know, I'd still sell audio if I were ridiculously wealthy." He looked at me for the longest time, then said, "Yeah...but then, you probably wouldn't be very good at it."

It's the same as, "If you had a billion dollars, would you own a Ferrari?" Answer, "Naaaa, I don't like them." RIGHT! Give that man the $1B then visit him later and check out his garage.

"Fair pricing" is only fair or unfair in our personal lexicons, and as I can only hope to gleen from our 'margin and pricing discussions here, are fair only, if WE can afford it. Let's be real here and realize that the business model I showed in an earlier post would not suit very many of you out there. Who would own a business, work countless hours per day and worry 24/7, lie awake at night staring at the ceiling, and WISH to make $3800. per month?
Some genius will shout back, "Well, uhhh, if they don't like it, let them get another job, noone's forcing them." True, but then, we have, no distribution, no demos, no 'used gear'.
I would submit that "Fair pricing" is fair if it is balanced with competition within it's market and performance. Beyond that, some of it seems tend to make pricing fair or unfair if 'we can afford it.'

If the prices as we know them now at the Local Audio Stores were truly unfair, (too much margin, specifically as we almost,repeat, almost have to consider that that manufacturers pricing because of competitive forces has to be at least reasonable), why is it so hard for those B&M dealers to stay in business?

Do I want a bargain? Sure, but the best price is not always the best deal.

Thoughts?