So Much "Harshness"

Hi Tvad, I did not plug the TT-PSU into the conditioner when I tried it, just the other electronics. It still had a very negative effect on the sound when the turntable was the source. I had read that these type of products generally have a better effect on digital sources than analog, and on video sources than audio, for that matter, and my experiment confirmed this for me. When the CD player was the source, the effect was only very slightly positive - slightly better bass, actually, which was a little surprising to me, and a slightly cleaner overall sound. With the turntable as the source, though, it was a drastic difference for the worse. The soundstage was greatly shrunken, and dynamics were compressed quite a bit, especially on the soft end - the softs were nowhere near as soft with the conditioner as they are without it. This was again a surprise, I would have thought it would be the other way around. Loud dynamics were also slightly compressed. The timbres of acoustic instruments and vocals were also not produced as accurately with the conditioner - it seemed to remove overtones is how I would describe it - the timbres were not as rich and complex as they should have been, and are without the conditioner. It also certainly removed much of the ambient noise of the original recording space. I realize that there are many others who have experienced a positive difference with power conditioners on vinyl - my brother is one, actually. He was present when I tried it and was particularly disappointed in the outcome in my system, since it works great in his. His set-up is quite a bit different from mine, though.

To get back more on topic here, I guess my point is that since these type of products will not make a positive difference in all kinds of systems, then one cannot consider them the most important fix for harshness, as some in this thread have suggested. They certainly won't "fix" a bad recording job, or "fix" overly bright equipment. IMO these things are much greater causes of "harshness" than electronic noise, though this is indeed a cause in many cases as well. I do find it interesting that most people I know with low powered amps and high effeciency speakers seem to complain much less about electronic noise in their systems anyway, and almost none of them (again, that I know) use power conditioners. I have to wonder if that has something to do with it. Maybe not - anyone else reading this have any thoughts on that?

I did not plug the TT-PSU into the conditioner when I tried it, just the other electronics. It still had a very negative effect on the sound when the turntable was the source.

Learsfool -- It seems to me that the resulting isolation between the ac grounds of the turntable and the preamp could be the reason for the negative effects you noted. That could very conceivably result in voltage differentials between the grounds of the two components, which could cause noise currents to flow between them in the ground wire of the phono cable (which has a substantial impedance at ultrasonic frequencies due to its inductance), from where they might couple into the lines carrying the signals from the cartridge, and cause intermodulation products or other effects within the audible spectrum.

I'm always leery about doing anything that would tend to isolate the ac grounds of components that are connected together with signal interconnects. Clearly it can be helpful in some systems, such as in cases where people have separate dedicated ac lines for the digital and the analog parts of the system, but it can also lead to problems with ground loops, voltage offsets between component chassis, and spurious noise currents flowing in interconnect shields or ground connections.

Thanks for the good clarifications, also, on multi-miking, re-takes, etc.

Regards,
-- Al

Learsfool, and then maybe its just that particular conditioner you tried. I've had a variety of conditioners in my system, a few did some of the things you speak of, others work wonderfully.

At the risk of sounding like Mr T, when we are referring to harshness, what assumptions are we working on, i.e. the extent of the complaints that folks are making about the degree of the complainers experience of harshness?

For example, in my responses I assumed a gross complaint, one that was a harshness readily apparent and objectionable on casual listening by an average neophyte, as opposed to a minimal harshness (aka edge) observed after careful listening by an experienced audiophile with good listening skills. These are two different things, are they not?

Tvad, for example, or Learsfool, are positioned to benefit from all levels of real improvement to their systems, but would a possessor of very modest equipment, and listening skills, benefit substantially from using, universally, things the same things?

I'm referring to fundamental improvements. When many folks complain, for example, that his new speakers sound 'harsh' to him, folks don't seem to often ask how the 'harshness' presents itself and to what degree. We simply tell him to buy some 'warm' wires, buy some tubes, ad infinitum, ad naseum.

Am I off base in this observation?