Are you too old to be an audiophile?

Don't get me wrong, Farjamed, you asked a good question and it's prompted an interesting discussion. You have nothing to apologize for and I didn't really see you being offensive to anyone. Certainly no offense taken on my end. As far as your dad and the differences in what you hear, who knows. Just out of curiosity, have both of you actually tested your hearing to see if that is actually something that might be at play, or are you just assuming that because of the difference in your ages. If so, check out this article in the NY Times. And another fluff piece on CBS News here. It's not just older folks who are vulnerable to hearing loss.

I am reminded of a recent audition I was doing of two headphone amps. I have headphones that are a bit challenging to amp well, and certain amps do a better job than others. I was trying two of the amps that are reputed to do a very good job with these particular cans (and indeed they do). I'd made my own assessments of the two amps. Then a good friend who is also a music-lover/audiophile with many years of experience came to visit. He's another person I've shared plenty of listening sessions with in various places and we actually have pretty similar tastes, but are not always right in line with each others preferences. He listened and gave his assessment. He preferred a different amp for different reasons and did not echo many of the ways I was hearing the two. Then a third person came by who was picking up one of the two amps which I was borrowing. He is a headphone buff (honestly I don't know what his experience has been but his musical preferences are in another world from mine). He also listened using his music (as I said, very different from what my friend and I listen to). He had entirely different things to say about the two amps. Who's right? Which amp is better? Should you pay attention to any of the three of our different opinions based upon age...musical preference...experience...a hearing test....or?

Another example...over the years I've had many musicians come by and, usually in passing, hear my system (I never actually invite people to listen unless I know it's an activity they enjoy), whatever form it may take at the time. My wife's family has two musicians and my wife's degree is in music performance. Now a few musicians have stopped and listened in awe and have made some very vivid observations about what they were hearing, but many...no most, just get into the music and basically shrug off any appreciation for how it was being presented. My wife's family all know what's up with my system, but none of them really get it, and their few observations would not at all indicate they are listening from the same standpoint I am, or have the same appreciation of what's going on. I know none of them have the same priorities in assembling a system, and none really care about the same things I do. Who's right? Which approach is "better"? Are they deaf, or is their hearing otherwise impaired? Don't think so, and in many ways, musically they are far more sensitive to some aspects of presentation than I am. Still, they just don't care whether the music is coming out of a boom box or a thoughtfully assembled system that cost as much as a car. Who should you listen to for advice and on the basis of what? It's a valid question you ask about hearing. I don't know that the answer is so simple, except to say that ultimately you're the best judge of what sounds right to you.

BTW, I love the illusion of soundstage (with a 2-channel speaker system) as well, so we're on the same page there. There are plenty of folks who feel it's way overrated, but it does thrill me.

ok, have fun, kids.

Hey, who you callin' a kid?! I turn 51 on Friday my friend. Over half a century of valuable experiences up for grabs...what a valuable resource...get it while you still can. This is a limited time offer. In a few more years I'll be partially deaf and poppin' pills to raise the family flag. I'll have to turn in my Audiophile Decoder Ring and ID badge. Between the pension from Audiogon and selling off the system to some young buck who can better appreciate it, I'll have enough to buy me a Bose Wave, a years supply of Depends™, and a hearing aid. Maybe the government will have implemented the Soylent Green program by then and I'll have that to look forward to instead.

Well, you may not be a kid, Jax2, but you're a bunch younger than my son. BTW, I just bought a new cart and a spare armtube for my JMW 10.5i arm today.

Farjamed, my observation/comment was not meant to offend. I don't know you, and I respect however you choose to participate in discussions on Agon. However, I will say that my experience is that, IN GENERAL, participants who seldom discuss music tend to also be ones who rely on specs, and are prone to want to declare this component as "the best", or "better than that one", without focusing more on aspects of sound reproduction that are more elusive, and harder to quantify.

Wether a component makes sound that resembles music or not has much more to do than with technical accuracy in the high frequencies. So, the ability of a person to accurately hear in the upper frequencies is only but one of many aspects of judging sound that matter. It is also interesting to me that while even the most open-minded audiophiles, who acknowledge that measurements don't tell the whole story, seldom acknowledge the limitations of the equipment doing the measuring. IOW, I am not willing to concede that because some piece of electronic equipment tells my audiologist that I can't hear anything above 14K (not the case), that my ear/brain are not processing that information at least to a degree that it is still relevant. Case in point: the 20hz-20k hz standard. It became the standard on "determination" that humans could not hear anything above 20k hz. It is now generally acknowledged that the standard is very inadequate, and that humans can, in fact, process information well above 20k hz; and that the presence, or absence, of such has a profound effect on the perception of information much lower in frequency. The brain also has a tremendous ability to fill in the blanks.

There is a lot about this stuff that we don't fully understand. And to a degree, I like it that way. I think that focusing too much on the technical detracts from the ability to put together a system that makes music; at least MY idea of what music should sound like.

You state that your Dad loves music, and that you can't understand why he can't hear the difference between two sets of earbuds. I suspect that it is not so much that he can't hear the difference, but that he just doesn't care; and that the act of trying to determine which one "sounds" better, detracts from his experience of listening to the music.