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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Just got first lesson on speaker tuning. The Klipsch as the caps started to go bad started to sound midrange range focused and noisy. I just replaced the tweeter caps with the Sonicaps with 10 hours on them. (in one speaker) I was expecting changes in the high freq. What I was NOT expecting was the midrange is much tuned down???? There is much better balance in the speaker by just changing the tweeter caps??? This I was not expecting. I was expecting the highs to be more or less or better or worse but I was not expecting the BIG difference in the midrange.

This is for sure not all lost. I already prefer even the cheap Sonicaps on the high freq. Replacing tweeter caps (at least bad ones) cuts the midrange down and give much more bass.

For people reading this in the future and are not sure if you want to pour money into your speakers. Start with the tweeter caps for sure the cheapest and it is surprising what they do to the "other" freq.

At first I thought what will I be able to tell from just tweeter caps? Maybe a lot!

In critical listening sometimes I like to listen to say just the bass guitar player. With the old caps you could NOT do that. You would just be frustrated. They sounded dynamic but a mess! Ok till you really listened.

I am more excited then I have been since the start of this. For sure I will be replacing at least the tweeter caps.

Very excited to hear these Duelund's. These are the copper foil ones that Tony Gee rated so good. I hope they live up to my expectations.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,976 posts
 
Wait till you hear what replacing the tweeter with a fostex t900a or t500amk2 would do;) klipsch tweeters are not so good...I would replace the tweeters before I would buy crazy costly caps like dueland. Not mater what cap you run on the klipsch tweeters its not going to be near the performance of a t900a with the most affordable caps arround. Dampening the bass cabinets also is a good place to start. So to get the best out of klipsch upgrade tweeters, upgrade crossover, dampen bass cabinets and you should be good to go...Or turn them and buy a Altec model 19;) To me the altecs a superior loudspeaker. The model 19 also benifits from adding t500amk2 or t900a.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
JohnK you may be right on the crazy caps. They for sure are expensive! I can not say yet whether they are worth it? I am not really interested in mods though just making them as good and hopefully better then new. I can say that plastic caps are NOT as good as original. So it does not make sense to me to put cheap caps in unless of course they sound good. Sonicaps fit the cheap but not the sound good. JohnK remember from my point I was very happy with the Klipsch for 25 years unmodded. If my old caps had not gone bad I would not be doing a thing! I have this feeling that caps are like what has happened to many other things in audio. At one time people were SURE digital was better then analog. At one time people were SURE SS was better than tubes. People were SURE hard ceramic magnets were no worse than Alnico. (even thought Alnico cost 30 to 50x as much) Alnico was not supposed to matter we were told. I think oil caps will likley be the same and just wish I could get more of those antique oil caps I had but that is impossible. I am on the same page as Arthur Salvatore wishing to just once hear a fully done set of Khorns that I might add are still his top EVER vintage speaker and STILL one of the best! (money no object)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
JohnK is this your speaker company and do I understand you use Mundorf Silver in Oil and Alnico Magnets in your speakers? Have you ever tried the Duelund's with your horns?

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/realitycheck2/kalinowksi.html
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,976 posts
 
Yes KCS is my company. Many of our models use mundorf caps and sport quality alnico magnet drivers. I have used Duelands and they are very good but its the transducer that maters more than the cap. On my Klipsch and altecs I used t900a t500amk2 as tweeters. Still have 2 pairs of altecs bunch of other vintage but I collect because Iam interested in the design and construction of vintage not bacause its equal to modern in quality of sound. Though the altecs after a wee bit of work are close to modern horns in quality of sound. Have heard many highly modified and stock k horns a good friend uses 4 arround his pool!! Sure can be fun for partys. I use 1 pair of altecs in my bedroom hooked to a small TV and SACD DVDA player sound is very pleasent great for late night presleep listening. Good luck with you quest and happy listening, email if you want a pic of my main horn rig. JK-K.C.S.
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