2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ran another 6 hours on SIO with the Duelund. Impression still the same. I could hear from upstairs (speakers in the basement) the over emphasis on the top end.

I switched back in the Supreme just to listen before bed.
Love the balance. I also ordered another Duelund. Not expecting a improvement or much with two in fact I expect it to get bright. Of course I am just guessing.

Tempoelectric talked about using two differnt kinds of caps to cancel their signature's out. I know you guys say to wait until burn in fully done and I of course am not argueing but as the hours tick on all the caps my fav combo is still the same and by the same amount. I can see caps getting smoother but too much top end to go away???? Can't see why?

The tweeter caps are in series and I find them great together but there is only one 13uf midrange cap. So do two different caps work the same way in parallel??

This I have no idea what to do? How much Supreme how much Duelund? or even if the same thing applies to midrange?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
For the mids I am thinking of ordering in even numbers say increasing the amount of Duleund to Supreme until I have reached the cost benefit point. Does that make sense or is a bigger cap and fewer better?
kijanki's avatar
kijanki
4,432 posts
 
Volleyguy - if you don't know this already - on the web side www.humblehomemadehifi.com under Main menu there is "Cap test" where they test and describe sonic impressions of about 24 different caps - including Mundorof oil. I got Solen before reading this and will probably change - maybe to Mundorof. Audiocap I used in parallel doesn't have good ratings either (inspite of price). Hope this will help. (If you have problems getting it I have printed copy)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Kijanki I have read that review (very good as well) I read so much cap stuff trying to avoid wasting money.

Kijanki here is a even more complete test with a lot the same results. I find this one even better!

http://www.tempoelectric.com/caps.htm

I likely think this better if only I agree with the slightly different results. Tony Gee had the Sonicaps not much below the Mundorf Supreme I did NOT find this to be the case and agree with Tempoelectric on Class D for Sonicaps. I also agree with Tempo Electric on the Supreme being better than the Silver in Oil in balance and Tempo has the Supreme second only to the Duleund. Believe me I was not expecting that! (for the Supreme to be that good)(or am I trying to get a cap Holy war going)

I like that TempoElectric's tests were over several years and that some cheap caps were near the top and some companies cheaper caps (meaning Mundorf) ranked higher than the more expensive ones. Tempo also has some very expensive caps ranked very low. (meaning not all about $)

Tempoelectric is also says they recommend mixing caps to cancel the caps sound out. I will be trying that likely this weekend with 2 Duelund's on the tweeter. If I hear the effects of the Duelund I will have to say everything Tempo has said is correct to me. I hear NO cap with the Duelund/Supreme.

When this all started (rebuilding crossover) I contacted B&W to ask what they used in their new Nautilus. They said Supreme. I asked them not Silver in Oil and they said, no. They said they auditioned SIO but went with Supreme.

I am just saying Mundorf Supreme is a very good cap for a very reasonable price. I find Tony underrates it and agree with Tempo on the Supreme.

I am very glad though that both have taken the time to do this.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,976 posts
 
Sorry dont know of any paper oil caps. I owned a 500c had it rebuilt by fischer doc, best tubes you could buy in it was fun. But not close to performance of my modern tube gear. Did ok on my vintage speaker collection. I was able to pick up some altecs off craigslist. Owner didnt know correct model num. So I thought what the heck might as well give them a look over, turned out to be model 19 and hes orignal owner with manual etc. Said he had another old speaker I saw a pair in walnut, grills covered in cat hair. I pulled grills and a near mint model 15 altec was revieled. He said he sent in both sets of woofers to GPA for new surounds. And bought both new in the late 70s. He remembered having to wait for 4 months for delivery back in the 70s but didnt remember much else. Nice set of cornwalls local to me but I have so much kit hard to find a place for it.
More to discover