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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Johnk is not most tube gear from a lot the same design? How did the Fisher sound before the rebuild? I find that a lot of the rebuild people want to fix the old gear say your 500c that is not worth a lot of money so they put caps is based on the current market value and not the replacement value of product new.

I have found that with the Klipsch crossover rebuilds as well. I can understand why too. If one paid $1k to $1.5k for Lascala's a $200 or $250 crossover rebuild seems economical. What I found tough was I wanted as good as new in every way or better and that is not happening for $250!

I did like that Tempoelectric did rank the vintage caps (Sprague Vitamin Q) and said they were a smooth but somewhat soft sound, not the worst combo for horns.

It also shows that exactly what I found is that it is not that easy to replace the original oil caps that were "voiced" for the Klipsch. Maybe the Supreme with the SIO was better than new and Duelund/Supreme is much better (especially for critical listening) but the Duelund/SIO (at big $) not better than original in all ways.

My Fisher x100d is I believe the same as the 500c without the receiver. My main stuff was/is all Linn. I only bought the Fisher because it sounded so much better with the Lascala's. With the bad caps the Linn would peel your ears off! Before the caps went bad though it sounded very good with the horns.

I will be do some "voicing" with the Linn gear later.
merganser
216 posts
 
Volleyguy, it's my personal experience that the Sonicap's are very, very close to the Mundorf's in preformance when used in speaker crossovers. I believe you only gave the Sonicap's 30 hours, which isn't anywhere near enough time for them to bloom. Again, you can not judge the sound of any of these caps until they run in as the sound at the end will be very different than at the beginning.

Another cap you may want to consider is Obbligato. I'm impressed with them and for the money, they are a true bargin.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Merganser.
I have only gave the Sonicaps 30hrs yes. They lacked dynamics (of Mundorf) more than smoothness. After 30hrs I installed one Supreme (in the circuit) and could notice a big improvement in dynamics. Sonicaps are not hard sounding to me just no life. I can not understand where the "life" would come from later. They are very tiny! To me #1 thing in the cap was to match the originals fantastic dynamics "live" feel. My wife did the double blind on the Sonicaps (not knowing which speaker they were installed in) and said Wow! that is a "HUGE" differenece those are wayyyyy better the problem was she was pointing to the vintage caps. I will reinstall the Sonicaps just to confirm feelings on them.

TempoElectric on (they rate Class D Sonicap Gen I)

"While not offensive, this is an inexpensive cap that sounds that way. Bargain hunters would be better served using a Russian Teflon or Mundorf MKP".
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Merganser sorry to be so critical on Sonicaps. I do agree they sound "similiar" to Mundorf Supreme in that both are neutral. What I did notice when the Mundorf went in is that there was less congestion. The Mundorf's had more "life" but the sound was similiar. I think that explains how Tony Gee had the Sonicaps only slightly below Supreme and Tempo had Sonicaps in Class D. We all hear things slightly different.

The thing that shocked me with the Sonicaps is that putting them in made the Klipsch sound like a standard speaker. I never would have thought they could.

So far everything TempoElectric has said to me has been bang on. The Duelund they said was 2 or 3 x as good as Supreme but cost 6x as much and I even think that is likely true. The tough part in this hobby is 2 or 3x better (that is a lot better) and is worth a LOT to some and not so much to others and even what Tempo said on using the Duelund only in expensive speakers that you plan to keep. I agree with that.

If my Linn speakers needed a rebuild I would likely go Supreme. (if at all) The Duelund's would drive the cost up to high in which I could get better Linn speakers at that cost or go Aktiv and not need crossovers at all.
merganser
216 posts
 
Volleyguy, the Tempo rating on the Sonicap's is for use in electronics, not crossovers. In crossovers, I doubt you could tell much, if any difference after they have fully burned in.
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