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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Trying to assess the Sonicaps in the midrange and they are massively undersized! Wayyyyyy below the level of the vintage. I am using this to figure out how much Duelund/Supreme to get. I can not believe how flat they make the sound. The difference is even bigger than the tweeter caps made. The vintage caps in the tweeters showed their age more than midrange. So now it is all negative with the Sonicaps. (except their is a slight less drone)

JohnK I am wondering on your Fisher rebuild did you use good caps? If they used cheap caps like this I can see why it did not sound good!!!

I will be putting in the order tonight. Here goes guessing.
merganser
216 posts
 
Ok, I can't take it anymore. This thing about cap size and it's relation to the sound is complete garbage. Rauliruegas
explained the reason for the size differences, but like a lot of good advice offered to you here, such as burn in time, you choose to ignore it.

There is a right way and a wrong way to go about what you are trying to accomplish, so far you're going about it the wrong way.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Merganser

Not one cap has changed one bit in dynamics in break in. (that I can hear)

Can you tell me the right way then? Please do not say the lousy dynamics will somehow change at some magical hour of break in.

So are you saying that the MUCH bigger same type a cap Mundorf which has much better dynamics right out of the box is not because it is a much bigger cap?

Why is it only Sonicap that is sooooo flat? Are they special compared to others with break in. I am half way to 100 hours and after the first 5 hours I can not tell the difference. Even then the Sonicaps have not become more dynamic.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Well now we are getting silly, I agree CAP PHYSICAL size HAS ZERO to do with performance.. Reason a Mundorf may be more dynamic is it is in fact 2 caps in one, and run to be like almost a cancelling type device... And they are in series inside the cap housing which might be what adds to the slight Harmonic excess, and the slightly "Higher" efficiency that many claim to hear that cap has, which in turn enhances the dynamics..

The Duelunds are a different animal and layed out completly in a different geometry and probably the characteristics is similar to the same effect the mundorfs have on the sound.

As for sonicaps, well my opinion they are a cheap cap, and yes are a bit flat, not a ton of detailed information nor are they 3d or spacial masters by any means, however they are of a more conventional design than either the mundorf or duelund, and they are simply of different materials as well.. NOTHING EXOTIC is used in the Sonicap, the others are totally off the standard path of capacitor materials with much higher degree of quality type tolerance and approach..

But I totally agree Physical SIZE wars has nothing to do with it and is totally ridiculous... Zero correlation to do with what is going on here.. There are smaller caps that can sound as good, and also as bad, difference is the bigger caps have higher voltage ratings because then the dielectric is thicker and will not melt, this could be worse for some designs who knows?

And Dulunds are only so large due to the geometry, They are not nearly as thick as a round cap however.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Actually I know for a fact a sonicap does not sound as good as either of the 2 other caps here, so thats not the point, However it would be interesting to see taking the 2 smaller caps of smaller value, be it Sonicap or whoever and "BAttery" them together for example 2 sonicap 1 uF caps to equal a total of 2 uF, and I can tell you this, I have actually heard it, and it was in tube amps, this was as dynamic as a single mundorf which would have 2 (4uF) caps inside doing essentially the same job as the "Batteried" sonicaps... However still the mundorfs use higher grade materials, in the end will sound more liquid, less dry etc... With probably a little more organic bass and dynamic contrasts...

So in order to make all things equal if you wish to compare PHYSICAL size parameters in this case, you would Need 2 SONICAPS which will be DOUBLE the size you are now talking about and it would be VERY close in physical size to the mundorf which has DUAL capacitors in ONE single housing.. They are totally different caps, and totally different sizes, but not because of what you think or see.
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