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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
dgarretson
2,614 posts
 
K40Y9 PIO sounds pretty good right out of the box and should improve within 10-20 hours. FT-3 teflon takes much longer to break-in and can be irritating until it does. I've had good luck paralleling K40 & FT-3; this seems to improve bass definition and treble clarity, as compared to K40Y9 PIO by itself. When mixing different types and values you should listen carefully for smearing of detail.

It would be interesting to have your views of these byapss caps tested separately on the tweeter and woofer sections.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Dave

What is the voltage of the PIO? Can they be used in electronics to replace vintage caps?

You are right on the Teflons being not that good right out of the box. I have heard some crazy hours like 400 for Teflons? That is almost a month at 24/7! Wow!

You would want to know they are good at the end of that.
dgarretson
2,614 posts
 
K40Y9 that you have are .22uf/1000V; FT-3 is .1uf/600V; FT-1 is .01uf/200V. Other values and voltage ratings are available on Ebay. All are OK for electronics within their voltage range. The russian seller claims to have tested FT-1 .01uf/200V out to 1000V.

If you don't want to wait for break-in of FT-3, put them all in parallel and wire the parallel pack in series with an AC load such as 75W or 100W lightbulb. Give them several weeks like that.

To hear K40 at its best, clip off the steel leads and replace with audiophile wire soldered to the stubs left protruding from the glass ends. BTW these mil spec PIO are hermetically sealed and should never leak.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Did some more testing and I do not mean to upset anyone here who owns either Bennic, Sonicap, or Mundorf but all plastic caps I have heard degrade the sound in a big way and it is NOT hard to tell. In the horns you hear everything. (good or bad) I am being critical of even my own gear wondering what the heck was I thinking!

Biggest surprises
Duelund in the tweeter, how good the vintage STILL is in the midrange, Russian PIO as bypass can help and these may be very good caps maybe better than vintage if they were big enough.

Biggest disapointments
Linn and B&W and many big name speaker companies use just cheap caps. I guess that is why I have had a foil cap speaker for 30 years. Unacceptable at the prices they charge! Mundorf SIO and all plastic caps. I guess good if you want to make your system sound more like plastic.

I got one plastic cap to get rid of in the amp with I hope Russian PIO and then all done.

So far favorite tweeter caps
1. Duelund/Duelund
2. Duelund/Supreme (not SIO I do not see them as even better than Supreme)
3. Supreme/Silver in Oil (only have one SIO)
4. Sonicaps
5. vintage (wayyyyy to much noise)
6. Bennic (in the Linn)

Fav's in the midrange (Duelund not here to compare)
1. Vintage Foil caps that come with speakers (by a long shot!)
2. Mundorf Supreme (with the Russian PIO bypass caps)
3. Mundorf Supreme (dynamic but fake and rough sounding)
4. Supreme 10uf with SIO and Russian PIO (again do not care for SIO at all)
5. Sonicaps (not near dynamic enough)
6. Bennic (in the Linn speakers awful)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
The CAST caps are not here yet but will be interesting.

JohnK had done extensive work on vintage Klipsch speakers. He had tried working on the cabinets to dampen them down. I feel the resonance is caused by the foil cap and maybe not the cabinet. At least I hope it is as I know the caps resonate.

Tony Gee talked about how the Duelund's made everything sound more real. That would not be the exact words I would use. I find the Duelund sounds similiar to the vintage with a MASSIVE reduction in resonance. My words would be (after living with foil caps for 25+ years) is that plastic caps are much less real and plasticize the sound. Where the Duelund's shine is they are wayyyyy out of the league of vintage in noise reduction.

Tony and Tempo talk about things sounding more real (with Duelund) I believe real is what was there (always in foil caps) and the plastic caps changed everything to plastic sounding and we have become used to that.

The weakness of the vintage Klipsch is the resonance and I think it is in the vintage cap not the box. The only thing I can go on this is the HUGE reduction in resonance that came from the Duelund in the tweeter.

I have not been as excited about an Audio product in a long time as I am about these CAST caps coming. Very high hopes. I am glad they were designed for horns.
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