break-in--bane or boon ??


as a reviewer , i often receive equipment which is new and has no playing time.

i have to decide whether to break in the component and if so, how many hours is necessary.

i have often asked manufacturers for guidance.

one cable manufacturer said the cables--digital, analog and power, required no break in. another said 24 hours.

when i reviewed a mcintosh tube preamp, i was told by a technician that no break in was necessary. all i needed to do was leave the preamp on for one hour in order that the tubes were "warmed up"

can someone provide an objective explanation as to the basis for break-in and how to determine how long to break in different components ?

for example, cables comprised of different metals, if they require break in, is there a difference in the requisite time for a given metal, e.g., gold, silver or copper ?

can someone provide an explanation as to what is happening during the break-in process ?

can one devise a mathematical equation to quantify break-in hours, as a function of the parts in a component ?
mrtennis
Thank you for your input, Charles1dad, Ivan_Nosnibor, and Nonoise. Obviously, we're of the same mind.

Mapman, I hope you'd be willing to share a soft drink at my expense at a high-end audio show in either NYC or DC next year.

Douglas_schroeder, "I would not accept hand-wired/made units made over time with possible variances in wiring, solder, caps, tubes, etc. to be close to two mass-produced units."

Douglas_schroeder, "IOW, I don't care if capactitor looks different electronically when used/broken in. I care about if the component will sound different."

Beyond overlooking my point that given the same parts, two DynaKits always converge sonically after break-in, those statements appear contradictory.

At any rate, the implication that a component employing capacitors that measure differently will not sound different flies in the face of the experience of many an audiophile, regardless of whether they believe in break-in. Even cable skeptics I talk with will often concede that if electrical properties of two cables can be differentiated, potential sonic differences could exist, even if put forth with the caveat, "the design one of the cables must be fundamentally flawed."

Regarding your question, my recollection is that the capacitor was not listened to prior to run-in, and the author's opinions on the sonics of the caps in the test followed whatever routine he used. That would fall in line with most of the capacitor write-ups I've found over the years.

Douglas_schroeder, "Don't lump me in with cable skeptics!"

Douglas_schroeder, "I'm not saying that things such as wire, caps, etc. cannot change over time. I am saying that IF they change at all the human typically cannot hear it - it is beneath the human hearing threshold."

Hopefully, you do realize that over the past three decades, the cable skeptics have parroted those very same words.
Geof,

Nothing all that unique or out there really.

Enduring, no doubt:

Judaism

I am a big believer in spirituality and how that affects how one interacts with the world.

Music and how it affects me is just one form of that interaction.

Maybe there is a quantum temple bell in my future.....
BTW, I'm sitting watching the Orioles pound the Yankees.

Can anybody explain that one to me?
I'm sure I'm wrong. I realize now that my feelings towards cable break in stem from my unresolving systems. Ive never enjoyed revealing gear because I don't like to fiddle around that much with gear. I'm more into enjoying music than constantly reworking my system. I'm sure I would notice break in of cables in some circumstances but not with Harbeths and a Rogue Cronus Magnum. I'm looking into solid state and if I go that route maybe I can realize what you're all referring to.
Trelja, nice conversation/argumentation; this is the way it can be on audio forums. :)

You seemed to be indicating there may be variances between hand built units. If there was zero variance, i.e. all two units were built at the same time with doubles of parts, then my point falls to the ground. It seemed, however, that you were referring to units built over a period of time, so I made my point.

I have been consistent all along, and I believe my comments about whether a cap shows signal change is also consistent. My point is that even if it does cause sonic change, 1. Does it pass the threshold of hearing, and 2. Does it show noticeably different sound when compared side by side to a new unit?

My points are quite straightforward, and I believe the only way to resolve the issue is not through logic and argumentation, but by simple comparison of units - which is why I did so. I wanted the answer, not opinion. :)

Regarding your last comment on cabling; Well, there you go. You think I sound like a skeptic, and I think you sound like a subjectivist. :)

The cable skeptic says, "There is no difference between the sound of an assortment of cables." Well, I say there is, and I am not depending upon data to know it.

I'm saying, "There is no demonstrable difference (i.e. audible) between IDENTICAL UNITS over time. You say the data exists, but I have conducted the test and didn't hear it.

The two propositions are not even remotely close. And you will note that the prototypical cable skepetic will not conduct even the most simple listening test. Why? Because they know! I think it's obvious I am willing to conduct the actual listening test.

I actually think people - and now I'm not directing this to you Trelja, but the community - are afraid to suggest that their perceptions can be unreliable over time. It's absurd to think that we have such perfect sonic recall that we can declare definitively that something we heard five weeks ago is changed from what we heard today, even though heard with the same set of gear, as if our perceptions are impervious to change! :(

It was earlier suggested by John that perhaps I was being influenced by anxiety or another psychological effect. Well,what about all those who are hopping in and out of the listening seat? Maybe their blood pressure is lower any given day? Maybe they didn't fight with the spouse and feel less tension, etc. Maybe they are less tired... You want to talk about ANXIETY - how about the guy who really isn't super excited about the sound of his new $XXXX toy, but is desperately hoping 300 hours of Burn In transform it! Can you say heart palpatation as he settles into the chair? Tee hee hee, man, I could run with this argument, but I think I've made my point.

Sorry, it's too simplistic to declare that Burn In is 'real' when it comes to temporally stretched out casual observations. :)