2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sorry guys no camparisions from CAST and VSF yet. Looking for another vintage amp. I blame myself very stupid leaving that old amp on that long. Should have had a cooling fan on it.

With the SS it is just not good at all. Can not fault Duelund just a poor match.

I will have one or two vintage tube amps going in a week or two.

You do not get that super realism Duelund can deliver with the (vintage) tube gear on this SS.

In fact it is not a whole lot better than than the vintage caps.

If I was to have done the caps based on SS I would not have been to thrilled. If I did not know what Duelund could do I would in fact be upset.

Duelund in my mind is a completely different cap and may need no plastic caps in the system and maybe no SS to show what they are capable of.

I know I have said the caps are the best money I have ever spent and they are with the tube gear and maybe the worse money I have spent with SS as they do not move the earth like they can.

Oh well at least the cap burn will be done by the time the tube amp is hear.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Not attempting to bring this thread back to life, but I found this interesting thread... Volleyguy will get off reading this :-) Still not sure if you ever changed out those woofer inductors this might point you in the right direction. By the way I have used the duelund VSF's now on my horns with the Jantzen superiors Bypassed with the Vishay MKP's in the woofers backed by the 12 gauge copper foil Alpha core inductors, identical approach to Tony Gee.. My crossovers now cost more than most completed speakers, but worth it.. See link

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rspkr&1164387495&openflup&19&4
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I will check it out for sure Undertow.

I feel not ready to comment on the CAST till the tube amp gets here. (so not much to say) I bought a 500c and will be buying another vintage tube amp or two as well. Not going to have less than two working ones again. I will likely change the woofer inductor as well. Sorry for not finishing the thread but unexpected smoke slowed things down.

I can understand your feeling of being worth it on the crossover being more $ than speakers.

I still must say though Duelund not worth it on SS. (or at least mine) The stunning difference the caps make on vintage tube gear does not carry over to the SS. I have theory's but am not sure why?

The difference from the vintage and the newer SS is mindboggling. So much I can not even comment on the CAST vs. VSF with this setup. I have this theory that the tolerances (meaning cap tolerances) are not as important as material type of the cap. By my conclusion in the midrange that the vintage foil and Duelund sounded VERY much a like. One being a crude device another state of the art and both were good and all the plastic caps were poor.

Doesn't matter as I will own no SS in a short while anyway. Likely never again! Also never to own poly caps again either. A unmistakable fakeness (to me) is added by them.

I do have this theory on resonance. I think we need just the right amount. Or at least resonance is like tube distortion. I could hear the resonance in the mid range vintage cap and it is not offensive like the distortion from the SS amp. Like a natural resonance. Where the crude vintage caps run into trouble is in the tweeters. The resonance there comes across as noise and distortion. Not painfull SS noise just a fog kind of noise.

So Undertow I do not have a lot of confidence that a air core 12 guage inductor is going to make much difference. I am going to do it just to hear it but do not have high hopes. I hope your right and it does in my speakers. Always want improvement. I do have concerns about the plastic on the inductor. I do not know if plastic in an inductor is the same negative as plastic caps?

If the plastic coated 12 guage inductor does not sound as good (in my case) as the lower guage iron core (plastic free) vintage inductor I will feel very confident that plastic is the problem and will likely buy Duelund (or other plastic free) Inductor and speaker wire.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Will be able to test caps soon with at least 4 different vintage tube amps if not more.

Lost my mind over vintage. I want spare parts for a lifetime.

I had heard only new tube and SS gear.

Read a good link on a guitar amp site on why vintage sounds better. Points were.

Transformers now are wound different using a plastic core. Is this correct? Anyone know? Paper bobbins opposed to plastic.

Point to point wiring
Circuit boards act as a capacitor. Is this correct? The site said only point to point wiring does not do this and they prove it by having two wires run in opposite direction.

Of course they talked about caps and resistors as well being better.
dgarretson
2,608 posts
 
Jody/Volleyguy, before you "lose you mind over vintage," kindly return to me the 10 teflon & PIO caps that I lent to you for testing long ago. Thanks, Dave
More to discover