AC Outlets

Hifitime wrote,

"For anyone other than Rja, save your money on these high priced audio grade outlets, and upgrade something else in your system that can be heard, and measured."

I can certainly understand your point of view as someone who has not tried audio grade outlets but is reacting to the notion that outlets are important and audible. It should be pointed out that, in fact, wall outlets can be heard AND measured. Also note that audio grade outlets are not high priced... they are actually what you would probably call cheap. I mean, unless you've been on unemployment for the last three years.

Well, it's been entertaining so far. Now as far as doctors, or even lawyers, let's be honest. They are giving us opinions, hopefully educated and erudite opinions, but opinions nonetheless. That's why many people get second and even third opinions because as humans errors can occur and it's really not that uncommon. In fact many people are killed by these errors every year. Check the statistics.

I'm not exactly sure why you think I have no respect for those who design and produce high quality audio gear. That's a conclusion that completely eludes me, drawn from thin air and couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact I admire what many have accomplished. What fun would this hobby be without the many contributions that have been made starting with the wax cylinder?

There are many very knowledgeable folks on Audiogon who frequently offer their opinions and technical explanations. Almarg comes to mind. He's always helpful and respectful even if he doesn't agree with a post. He explains why he doesn't agree but never belittles anyone. I happen to respect the guy for the way he handles himself in a class way and I always try to read his responses.

I also appreciate Richard_stacey's approach. He keeps an open mind and experiments with some of the possibilities, drawing his conclusions from what he's heard. Isn't that approach closer to the scientific method than simply declaring "a priori" that all outlets sound the same?

My beef with you two is your sarcastic attitude about this topic and because you seem to know it all.

Rja

Seems like you cooled off a bit, probably a wise thing to do before posting anything on the internet. I don't see where any of my posts on this subject can bee seen as sarcastic - I have tried to explain why I have the opinion I have, compare that to others that just state, try X outlet it's fantastic, or the ones that just state X outlet is garbage, just statements not backed by any explanations as to why that conclusion was reached by the person.

Belittlement is a state of mind that is reached by a person by him/her self, if you don't let it get to you it will not bother you.

You calling me an idiot I simply don't care about, if it got to me that mean I'd be insecure about my person or what I stand for, I'm not, I assure you.

As always, Good listening

Peter

My apologies to the original poster for sidetracking his thread.

Richard wrote:

" I'm sure there is some technical reason why but I don't know it..."

It's very simple really, and also applies in a fundamental way to stock power cords versus many aftermarket power cords, ie: big differences in contact resistance to peak current. Stock outlets (and power cords) of the $3-$10 variety) have tiny points of contact that barely make contact with whatever is plugged into them.

This works fine for common household items that draw an even flow of current. A/V electronics draw current hard, off the peak and valley of the sine wave. Because of that, they are all sensitive to contact impedance. Any open connection that has poor contact integrity--whether at the panel or at the wall outlet, WILL affect performance to some degree. How much depends on the system context, how poor the contact is and and your set up.

If you were to take apart a $5 Hardware store outlet and say, a Hubbel 5362 outlet from an electrical supply house --$25, you'd see exactly what I mean. The Hubbel has massive plates that grip the pins tightly and make excellent contact, while the $5 model has 1/8" strips of metal with almost no grip or contact relevance.

Try this as a simple proof. Next time an electrician comes to visit for any reason, listen to your system prior to their arrival, then have them tighten the points of contact to the breaker/s that feed your system. Then listen to the system again. This should make anyone a believer that excellent contact integrity at every junction, from panel to outlet-- to component, matters in terms of performance. Why? Because panel connections vibrate loose over time and the reduction in resistance once tightened, is clearly audible. This is true when installing dedicated lines as well. You are essentially dedicating a breaker to the system (better peak-current delivery) and eliminating the resistance caused by branching a circuit to multiple outlets.

Really, for $25-$30 (Hubbel 5362 Spec Grade) this is a very simple, relatively inexpensive way to test the theory. It's not pseudo science, it is measurable and it does affect the (audio-video) performance of just about any carefully set up system. That does not mean that there aren't grossly over-priced, over-sold outlets on the market, there are. They exist because there IS an audible difference and some are exploiting that, just as with power cords--but that is a different discussion. This one is fairly simple and it does not strain the laws of physics or cost a lot of money to address.

This has been discussed before at some great length and there is a lot more detailed information available in the archives here and elsewhere.

To answer the OP, contact any electrical supply and request a Hubbel 5362 spec grade model. You can pursue higher end alternatives, but many will only sound different due to contact plating than offer any real measurable difference.

Regards,

Grant
Shunyata Research