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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I want to thank you Frederik for your wonderful sounding caps.

With the desire to get the most out of these caps I also would love to hear you opinions on what else in the chain does matter?

Thanks
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sorry of course that should say "your" not "you" opinions.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Thanks,

I aim to keep my participations in fora low on publicity stunts, doesn't help you nor me...

Regarding, what is the most important part. I find that to be quite difficult to answer. In my years in audio I've come to the conclusion that quality matters. I know that sounds easy but instead of saying a CD-player is 20%, an amp 30% and speakers 70% ( I know the total gets too big ), I've found that if either component or link in the chain fails in some way or another it's going to be very detrimental to your sound quality, beyond what some simple % values may or may not suggest.

Whereas our components in place of others create a small, large, vast difference is again a difficult question to answer. Personally, it probably will not surprise you that I'm in the same camp as Volleyguy, Stormen and Fas948. However, the "art" of making a system is of course a matter of getting the foundation where you want it to be first and then go from there. For further elaboration some of Steen's articles are quite good, as you can see he spends quite a lot of effort talking about mathematical filter functions, cabinets, drivers, phase etc. His work with components started when he was done with all the other parts (done to his satisfaction, that is).

To clarify, I run what could be called a full Duelund CAST system, with CAST components in all parts of the chain. Do I believe this improves the sound more than other brands of caps, inductors and resistors, certainly. Do I also believe that the used chips, topology, cabinets, drivers etc. etc. may play just as big a role, certainly.

Att: Volleyguy: Thank you for the compliment, most people do not realise how much you value positive feedback as a small manufacturer. But even if a guy only buys 2 resistors from us, and subsuquently reports back he really likes them, it makes my day!

Best regards,

Frederik Carøe
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Frederik was the CAST developed for Burt's horn systems?

Is that why I noticed so much noise difference from VSF to CAST is the exagerration of noise caused by horns?

This may be a touchy subject you may not want to answer and I understand, but the cost of CAST? Can they ever be mass produced? or VSF? Is it a volume issue or a manufacturing process issue? I remember reading Steen saying when the VSF came out that they only could be hand made.

Another question that has intriqued me is the noise reduction from VSF to CAST? Why? I for one did not expect it. Both modern caps and I understood noise reduction from vintage to modern but from top notch modern (VSF) to CAST I was not ready for. Is it the hardening process? Also have you reached the limits with CAST or is there still that same kind of noise reduction still possible?

Could I expect the same kind of noise reduction on coupling caps in vintage tube amp to VSF or CAST that there is in the passive? or not the same magnitude?

Thanks again.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
"Frederik was the CAST developed for Burt's horn systems?"

He was certainly the guy, who prompted us to go beyond the VSF. I wouldn’t say the caps were developed specifically for his speakers though. They do seem to be a good fit.

"Is that why I noticed so much noise difference from VSF to CAST is the exagerration of noise caused by horns?"

Well, I don’t use horns myself, and notice quite a difference as well. I believe it’s more a question of well designed speakers, than the choice of, ported, sealed, horns etc.

"This may be a touchy subject you may not want to answer and I understand, but the cost of CAST? Can they ever be mass produced? or VSF? Is it a volume issue or a manufacturing process issue? I remember reading Steen saying when the VSF came out that they only could be hand made."

They are certainly not mass produceable at the moment. I would say a mass production would only be possible if we were to develop our own kind of machinery, which is not currently feasible. Certainly, I would like to be able to do so in the future. However, this area of business is not typically something that creates large investment ability.

"Another question that has intriqued me is the noise reduction from VSF to CAST? Why? I for one did not expect it. Both modern caps and I understood noise reduction from vintage to modern but from top notch modern (VSF) to CAST I was not ready for. Is it the hardening process? Also have you reached the limits with CAST or is there still that same kind of noise reduction still possible?"

The CAST is special in the sense that we can harden it after the vacuum impregnation, something not feasible with the VSF. I hope in the future we will be able to take it further than the CAST. The CAST 630v cap is already using a more elaborate system than the regular CAST. We are researching different metal foils, paper types and CAST materials, those are other venues that may or may not yield improvements down the line.

"Could I expect the same kind of noise reduction on coupling caps in vintage tube amp to VSF or CAST that there is in the passive? or not the same magnitude?"

An impossible question for me to answer in good conscience. For one thing, I haven’t heard the improvement you got. Secondly, I have no experience with your electronics. I use CAST myself in my electronics, and do not want to do otherwise, but if it’s worthwhile for you?

"Thanks again."

A pleasure.
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