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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
ait
480 posts
 
One thing about shielding - although it decreases the radiated EMI, it also changes the inductance of the inductor being shielded, by as much as 20%. The magnetic field is where the energy storage occurs in an inductor, so messing with it will change the inductor's parameters. So either you adjust for the loss by buying a bigger inductor to start with, or you live with 20% lower inductance than spec.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ait

So does that make the Duelund WPIO inductor better in the sense that it is wrapped in paper? There must be less interference?

Irish65 I wish you could say what you thought was better about Duelund or why you thought it to be that way? Your opinion could mean a lot as you have tried many components.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Volleyguy,

Regarding pricing:

The price of our inductors is based on the expenditure and working hours we spend, a lot like everybody else I presume.

The foil we require is quite expensive to procure, then the winding with paper and subsequent oil impregnation under vacuum for 5 days also cost us a pretty penny. (I believe we are the only ones to do this with inductors, though I may be wrong).

Finally, the casting proces is done entirely in house and takes another 5 days, everything done by hand.

This is not to boast about our own products, but a normal inductor often takes from 1 minute - 1 hour to make. We spend at least 14 days, where the inductor is actively "under way". Which in the end has an impact on cost.

Also since we typically deal in small quantities we find that buying raw materials tend to be expensive. An example is a pair of CAST 8 AWG inductors we made for an upcoming US speaker, where we had to buy a minimum quantity of foil much larger than the pair of inductors required.

Again, I hope this presentation will be seen as being in good taste. But since you asked directly about cost, I felt the need to elaborate.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Thanks Duelund

Sorry just one more question are all CAST inductors 8AWG I thought they were 12AWG? Is this a special case?

The WPIO are not done under vacuum for 5 days are they? Are you talking about the CAST inductors only?

My choice (budget wise) was your WPIO or another brand. (not that I would not want CAST)

I have never replaced a woofer inductor and can clearly hear what the CAST does on the tweeter caps but is it my pig headedness that thinks that a low freq inductor would not be as critical to resonance?
irish65
170 posts
 
Volleyguy,

I could throw out numerous adjectives as to how the North Creek inductors compare to the Duelund Cast. But in the end what will that accomplish? From your own tests with comparing Duelund caps with others this has provided you with an education and a definitive upgrade path.
This same course of action with the inductors will yield the same results. I will say inductors are worth the money spent testing them.
I will add this about the Duelund's. They have a consistent sonic signature throughout their product line. Very natural and organic. For me it is worth every penny of the price of admission.

The Duelund Cast inductors compared to the North Creek is like going from a VSF to a Cast only larger.
Get both and sell the loser here. If it is a common value you will not lose money and to top it of you improved your system and added an education in for free.
Someday I am going to try a silver Cast inductor and compare it to the copper.

From my experience the crossover is the heart of the system and a well designed crossover with high quality parts is the way to go. I make people laugh on how much I have spent on crossover parts. But in the end I laugh because they spend more on a power cord for their system then what their crossover is worth. Do not get me wrong a power cord will benefit a system. However, if funds were an issue I would not hesitate to use a stock power and put my money on the crossover.
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