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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
The North Creek inductor is here.

Like all of you guys I am trying to get the most improvement for the $ I have or am willing to spend.

I actually like it when someone says your nuts. It keeps you in check. I agree with Dgarretson that a system is only as good as the weakest link. I have tried to go after those right away.

I choose Air Core low DCR inductor as this was talked about by Steen as area of importantce. Since I had Iron and maybe some corrosion and a higher DCR I am expecting improvement here. Just not sure how much.

I also choose to fix the power supply in the vintage tube amps as they are likely worn anyway. So again going from Electrolytic and possibly/probable worn (meaning going bad) another area of weakness to top notch poly power supply and maybe even adding some uf's.

Another area is Klispch used lamp cord wire back then and cheesy guage. So I have went to plastic free Duelund and heavier guage. So possibly corrosion and for sure not good quality to beging with. So again I am hoping for some improvement. But also a area that is not a waste anyway.

So guys feel free to shoot down my thoughts and say something like you should dump the old amp. Are not basic tube circuits pretty much the same? Just parts quality they are done with?

My thoughts are getting a new/newer amp with a top notch power supply and top notch coupling caps would not be cheap either.

For about $1500 or so you can have either all AN, Jensen, V-Caps in coupling and ASC in power supply good vintage tubes etc. To me I would think that would sound very good for $ involved and since looks are not a factor what do you think?
undertow
1,033 posts
 
You can NOT really do a full film poly Solen power supply.. Basically due to most electrolytic caps are 100 uF up to 100,000 uF depending on what your doing… As well as voltage issues. Only thing you can do is take a good rated Electro cap like your ASC or whatever and lets say its 4000 uF mounted, its 630 volts AC rated or whatever, and take a Solen cap simply soldered parallel (bridged across) the 2 pins on your Electro cap… This is a bypass, same as a Crossover bypass taking a 10 uF cheap cap and using a .01 Duelund or something of Higher grade in parallel not really changing the value of the crossover point but simply putting a smaller better faster cap to enhance the results.

Bottom line is Electrolytics are typically cheaper, smaller, and HUGE value capacitors, you could never fit or use a Film cap of these sizes in those locations or applications. So that’s why we are talking about taking a small Film cap which even a cheap solen is higher grade than the best Black GAte electro caps and basically bridging it across… AS the big value electrolytics are so big normally even 50 uF or 40 uf, in order to be effective from my experience and from others on the subject, use at least a 1 uF film cap to do the bypass… Be careful however these Film caps are only rated in VDC, so DC voltage, not AC… The caps cannot take nearly as much AC power as they can DC power due to the Plates have to take on the ALternating back and forth energy causing them to vibrate and shift much more than a DC application from my understanding.

Beyond that yes I have actually modded an entire power supply in a phono amp which is very critical for noise and overall quality to use the original big 1000 uF electrolytic caps, and bypassed them each with a Solen 400 volt DC rated fast cap 1 uF each. There was about 5 or 6 electros in this circuit if I remember correctly..

That being said your applications will vary, and I cannot recommend specifically using DC rated caps like this in all applications due to I have no idea how high of voltage you will actually see at these points… But I can say this, typically people building their own Differential Filters for AC power incoming to their system can and do use 600 volt DC rated, 800 volt DC rated, and 1200 volt Dc rated caps, that means they hook them directly inside their power outlets feeding their system. And they never have an issue as that is 120 volt plus coming staight from your outlet with 15 to 20 amps of current!

I believe that a DC 600 volt rated cap will at least take on 200 to 220 volts AC, and a 400 volt cap maybe a little less or more…Depending, But I am not an engineer and will not say that a cap would not Swell or explode under this! Mainly make sure it’s a GOOD film cap, and the dielectrics and sidewalls can take the heat. I mean from what I was told by a VERY high up the food chain in audio engineer that in fact I used some 800 volt dc and 1200 volt DC rated film caps for these applications and he was far beyond confident that even 50 years from now with fatigue these caps would never fail.

Again Hi end audio has no limits. There is no good standards, many things are WAY overbuilt for the task. Proceed with caution.

As for the results, well I can say this in my trials… Always fairly positive, Very quiet incoming AC power, very good frequency response, Lower distortion, better overall smooth sound without the edge or glare sometimes apparent with many cheaper electrolytic caps..
Good luck
elviukai's avatar
elviukai
135 posts
 
""even a cheap solen is higher grade than the best Black GAte electro caps""

Actualy NO. BG AC and N series is better than Solen both subjectively and objectively. This is from listening and measuring practice. Rule that Film acap is better than electrolytic doesnt aply in all cases.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Elviukai
What I should have said with a SOLEN Bypass used even on top of the best electro is better than the single Electro alone in many cases... That being said obviously in most electrical applications of a power supply a solen 1000 uF or whatever does not exist anyway, but a Black gate with a solen bypass can still make it better..

But hey in some applcations maybe a flat black gate with no bypass is the better solution, neither here nor there from my understanding as the BG's are not even made anymore so taking some cheaper electros bypassed by a decent film is the best route for most cases. Thats my clarification. Proceed with caution!
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow
What is that proceed with caution. You almost say that like you have had something explode?

The ASC at 4000uf do you mean 40uf? Confused?

North Creek inductor is huge. The size make the original look like a toy. I do not know what that will mean to sound. Should be interesting.
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