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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Hysterisis
I have read about it but what does it mean sound wise?

The vintage inductor is iron core wrapped in paper and wound around the core is wire wrapped in paper.

Some say hysterisis is almost like the plague.

From the Klipsch forum interesting read and not would one would think.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/t/38976.aspx

One thing inductors matter more than I thought and not where I thought or in the way I thought.

The vintage is muddier sounding in the bottom end (maybe the higher DCR) yet so far is smoother through the midrange?

I have set the North Creeks on cardboard because I sense ringing? This seems to make the voices rough. One of those things that give more detail but does not add up to more enjoyment? I switched to Audiophile CD's to make sure the inductor is not revealing CD player weakness. In the bass the North Creek is better but might come at a price.

The North Creeks might smooth out as well after all just a few hours. Sounds for sure are crisper and sharper. Piano on the vintage sounds like a blanket is over the piano. The North Creeks though give more HF noise without a doubt!

I did not expect this?

Irish65 I think I know what like about the North Creek's and what was likely better about Duelund that you could not put your finger on. This comparison is going to be very interesting.

For most Klipsch guys that have not replaced your inductor I am not sure I would waste my money. I bet many of the modern inductors with no paper sound wayyyyyy worse than what you have.

So far the vintage is better. The trade offs are much better. Smoother voices more dampening less ringing less of a stark sound. The vintage gives up some detail.

I have wired the speakers up the same to eliminate the caps having any effect.
ait
480 posts
 
I am not familiar with your crossover layout, but is it possible that the inductor is causing crosstalk with other components? Are there other inductors or coils near it? Is it directly next to the high-frequency section of the crossover?

You may want to try moving the location and orientation of the inductor - if it is lying flat, try standing it on its side and turning it to point in different directions, and see if the noise decreases.
face
516 posts
 
You probably threw your speaker's balance off and the mids are now beaming.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Volleyguy again I hate to say it for like the 10th time… But your missing so many pieces of the equation looking into one Miracle cap and inductor to solve an entire speaker curve.. First you have very old strangley P.A. Pro like low excursion woofers your trying to improve.. The added mid glare is simply due to showing the weakness now in the woofers frequency range.. Probably will need to re-tune the cabinet being it’s a K-Horn DAMP the hell out of the sidewalls in the triangle and add mass to the basket of the woofer itself..

Also make SURE you have I would say a minimum of 12 gauge copper, but 10 gauge pure copper wire feeding the inductor and the woofer back just the same. You need to build a crossover on several points, not just a part swap, and problem is when your crossover was designed they did not have the types of tests and software to generically get those tolerances and values perfect. So that woofer could in fact be better with a different value inductor than the original was. I mean there is several factors to the hill your climbing. Good luck
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I just got back and was thinking just what you said Ait. (crosstalk)

I have lots of space should the inductor be as far away from the tweeter caps or the tweeter?

It was you who mention this awhile back when you got a big North Creek inductor, right?

It almost sounds like LF being sent to the incorrect drivers?

Face you could be right as well, I was thinking that might happen (DCR is cut in half) except the signal sounded distorted not just off balance?

Undertow I have had good luck (real good luck) on the parts switch when staying to the same type meaning switching out a Aluminum foil in oil for Duelund Copper in Oil. (better in every way) The problems are when the poly cap goes in the network designed for foil.

Thanks guys I will do some location switching on the coil to see if that is it.
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