2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Got back the EL84 with the partial new power supply.

The sound of this amp was horrible!

Ended the experiment within 15 minutes and will see what the problem is. It might be a poor quality tube. Work done was ASC power supply caps a Silcon rectifier some resistors changed and some caps put in.

I suspect and my hearing is getting very accurate on this that a poly cap was put in and not even a good one. If you want to kill the tone of a vintage amp just put in a poly cap. My tech guy said a couple of caps. I can not believe how far off the mark this amp is, not even close to original spec Fisher. I will be taking off the bottom plate to see. As fast as snapping your fingers you can tell something is not right with this amp. The first thing you notice is things sound fake. There is also a dead sound.

There has been much made of the movement back to tubes. I think (becoming more convinced every day) that the other side of that equation and just as important as tube sound is the foil cap sound.

Foil works best when it is complete no poly anywhere. I was shocked how changing one cap in speakers changed everything and it was Mundorf Supreme. (not a bad cap)
dgarretson
2,599 posts
 
Volleyguy, 10-20 hours break-in will at least bed in the solder and resistors, and probably reintegrate the sound. These quick takes at cold start are pointless.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sorry Dave

It is the hum that concerns we as well. I will not put in the needed break in time. So that amp is going to be taken back or shelved. My other Fisher EL84 sounds fabulous except for phono stage. (too noisy)

I talked to Parts Connexion on Friday and am getting a quote from Frederik on two .022uf VSF caps. (not normal value)

I have attached a link to very good balanced article on Audio history.

http://www.nutshellhifi.com/library/tinyhistory2.html

"The same month, I went to the second Oregon Triode Society meeting, and one of the members brought a rusty old Dynaco Stereo 70 that first saw the light of day when Dwight D. Eisenhower was President. The sum total of his "tweaks" was to convert the EL34's to triode (cut and tape two wires), and replace two coupling caps. About 2 hours with a soldering iron. We're not talking aerospace engineering here.

The OTS guy turned it on, and we compared the Stereo 70 to everything in the dealer's showroom. It was plainly superior not only to any transistor amp in there, it wiped out the latest $3000 Audio Research all-tube confection that had received a glowing review in the latest Stereophile".
hotroady
4 posts
 
I was wondering if there is a link to Steen Dueland comments on large caps being better. Did he mean larger values? or just larger size in general?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Hotroady

Here is the quote from Steen and the link. I think he is clear on physical size and for sure I agree. It is also very easy to see why the idea is made fun of. ($$$ for big caps)

"An inductor coil MUST have low, very low resistance and capacitance — meaning that it by higher values will be heavy measured in kilograms of copper/silver and of the single layer band type.

Only if a resistor is in series with the inductor and no capacitor to ground between, this resistance can be built into the coil and a lot of copper/silver is spared.

The capacitors must act in the same manner with extremely low resistance meaning lots of conductive material. Again they will be larger and heavier, not much to do about that. Of course it goes for this part too, that a resistance can be built in as also inductance but then the free use of the part is heavily reduced.

From the great variety of types - stick to stack foils or variations on that theme if you can find them without plastics. The good old Micas works wonderfully well but they are far too expensive for greater values. Go for older types following the simple rule that bigger is better".

http://www.meta-gizmo.net/Tri/speak/STEEN.html
More to discover