2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Differences from North Creek to Duelund

The Duelund is darker more romantic sound. The North Creek crisper with more emphasis on middle and upper freq crispness. Drums have more snap on the NC than on the Duelund they are also of lower volume and crispness. On the Norah Jones CD the Duelund presentation will be lush but somewhat darker sounding. Norah is the star on the Duelund lush sounding on the NC the drums start taking the show and Norah voice becomes brittle.

With tone controls the treble is flat with the Duelund with the NC I would cut it back the treble. No contest in which is smoother, Duelund all the way. With the cuts in noise the Duelund will have more perceived bass. (less high freq and high freq noise) This makes the Duelund a easier long term listen. No hardness to sound at all. NC is sensitive to source and these differences are quite large.

I do notice the same things as when VSF or even more so when CAST went in the tweeter the amount/volume of sound goes down and this is noise reduction.

In the inductor the NC is MUCH louder volume wise.

Duelund works very well in this application as my speakers were tilted to much to mid and high. One may want an NC (although I think not) if your speakers were already on the dark side because NC for sure will tilt sound upward and be more crisp at a price though of harshness.

undertow
1,033 posts
 
So then north creek on the woofers, Duelund on the mids and tweets sounds like the most dynamic presentation. Obviously there are advantages to having "more power output" or efficiency to your large 15" woofer if your using K-horns with the north creek not needing nearly as much power. ThatÂ’s my take, and then duelunds yes make sense on horns. So if you were using the north creek on the horns than it makes some sense, did you try anything on the woofer? Or are you using the original inductor on the woofer and comparing these 2 inductors on the midrange?
face
516 posts
 
Have you measured the two different inductor's DCR? How do they compare? Did you level match your mids after swapping the components?
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow

My DCR guage puts the vintage at .3 to .4ohm (supposed to be .29)

The NC goes from .1 to .2 and NC says .15 I believe.

I would for sure NOT say NC on the woofers. A wax paper inductor of some sort. I am testing Duelund vs vintage which are both wax paper inductors. Both have DCR's around .3.

I will post again soon.

Face I did not buy a resistor because I had to try the Duelund first which has a very close DCR at 12 gauge. So the resistor might not have been needed.

I did prefer the vintage over NC even though I knew the vintage was cutting bass. The vintage (wax paper) has much less noise and harshness. So again I would have just kept that inductor over the NC.

I can say after a few minutes that the vintage and Duelund sound more related than the NC.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
This is going to take a little while to figure out.

The Duelund and the vintage are for sure not miles apart. This was one part I was unsure of doing as an inductor does not wear like a capacitor. So any new one would have to be technically better.

One thing I always wondered was does gauge matter? A steel laminate core inductor using 28 guage has the DCR of .3 a 12 guage air core is about the same so on a technical basis both are about the same resistance.

Hysteris is supposed to be awful. (even sounds like a disease) Yet on a thread I linked here to Al Klappenberger said in reality the measured distortion was very low? (from the vintage Klipsch laminate core)

I know a 28 guage wire running to your woofer sounds terrible. But is .3 DCR not .3 DCR? Is it not the resistance that matters not the guage?

Now if both are .3 DCR and neither has resonance. Should they not sound similiar?

Joe any words?
More to discover