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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Undertow

My DCR guage puts the vintage at .3 to .4ohm (supposed to be .29)

The NC goes from .1 to .2 and NC says .15 I believe.

I would for sure NOT say NC on the woofers. A wax paper inductor of some sort. I am testing Duelund vs vintage which are both wax paper inductors. Both have DCR's around .3.

I will post again soon.

Face I did not buy a resistor because I had to try the Duelund first which has a very close DCR at 12 gauge. So the resistor might not have been needed.

I did prefer the vintage over NC even though I knew the vintage was cutting bass. The vintage (wax paper) has much less noise and harshness. So again I would have just kept that inductor over the NC.

I can say after a few minutes that the vintage and Duelund sound more related than the NC.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
This is going to take a little while to figure out.

The Duelund and the vintage are for sure not miles apart. This was one part I was unsure of doing as an inductor does not wear like a capacitor. So any new one would have to be technically better.

One thing I always wondered was does gauge matter? A steel laminate core inductor using 28 guage has the DCR of .3 a 12 guage air core is about the same so on a technical basis both are about the same resistance.

Hysteris is supposed to be awful. (even sounds like a disease) Yet on a thread I linked here to Al Klappenberger said in reality the measured distortion was very low? (from the vintage Klipsch laminate core)

I know a 28 guage wire running to your woofer sounds terrible. But is .3 DCR not .3 DCR? Is it not the resistance that matters not the guage?

Now if both are .3 DCR and neither has resonance. Should they not sound similiar?

Joe any words?
face
516 posts
 
As long as the laminate core is used below a certain frequency, the distortion may not be audible.

As for why they may sound different, different purities, dielectrics, etc...
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Face

There is for sure more bass out of the Duelund. To me this is like going from VSF to CAST it is disorientating. When I put in the CAST (tweeter) I was shocked at how much less white noise compared to VSF.

My expectation on the changing the inductor was for more bass. (either NC or Duelund) Not sure why I did not understand noise from inductor???

As far as what an inductor does technically letting through the low freq signal blocking the high freq the Duelund is by far the quietest. (vintage second)

I am now starting to understand inductors better. When they resonate they make a thinner sound. You get the woofer adding high freq noise. (I really believe that Clarity white paper) This takes away fullness of the sound. The Duelund gives the impression of more bass but is it because of just less white noise coming through the woofer? (or like you said Face maybe purer copper and 12 guage or the silk?)

Norah's voice is richer fuller sounding. I think from the noise reduction from the woofer. So more of the voice comes from the woofer. On the vintage her voice is frail. On the Duelund you can hear more easily of the double tracking (on some tracks) of her voice to make it sound even fuller.

On Norah's voice you notice a huge drop in SSSSS's on Duelund.
If Deulund VSF is SSSS's
Vintage is SSSSSSSSS's
NC even more

Can we assume CAST is SS's?

Looking forward to see what the VSF does in electronics. Reducing noise without making things sound dead is the trick. The Jensen Copper Tube type does well at reducing noise just wish it was a little more realistic in the midrange.

I am going to spend awhile vintage vs. Duelund to see if I got my money's worth. At first when I put the vintage in (to compare to Duelund) I started to wonder? Now I coming to understand and appreciate the difference.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Frederik/Duelund

You guys must be getting confident? or you need to make two parts at once? That is great because I have heard enough of the vintage and am starting to tire of one speaker.

The second inductor is being sent today as well as the .047uf VSF cap.

I must say the Duelund WPIO inductor is a great part. After listening more this part makes a GREAT difference in voices. With the grealy reduced noise level the sound is rounder fuller and lush. Much more human sounding. Which does make sense as sound tilts to the low freq more because of less noise. Sometimes the voices do not even sound the way I remembered them? Took some getting used too. Norah's recording is much more enjoyable.

Looking very forward to when the second inductor gets here. I am going to wire up one speakers hook up wire with the Duelund (copper) wire right away. The only comparision will be against the crap stock wire. Not a comparison against a good part just how much does hook up wire matter. I am done buying any other parts. Too expensive I lose money every time.

I want to complete the Jensen Copper paper tube burn in as that is a good part. (about 100 hours on them in the other amp)
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