2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sorry Face

What I meant by that is yes there was no comparison before from 2 VSF in series to 2 CAST in series but I really liked 1 CAST followed by 1 VSF. I thought it sounded at least 80% the way to CAST at much less cost. It seems strange how when in series the circuit will take on much of the characteristic of the stronger cap.

What I mean is are 2 CAST (series) worth the extra expense. I have to work from memory because I can not compare 1 CAST 1 VSF to 2 CAST's. My original thought is it was not and maybe I could spend more wisely elsewhere.

Just rechecking before I start to solder in Duelund wire.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Running all low res caps on one channel. In the amp Jensen Copper Paper tube Duelund VSF (one) and CAST tweeter caps vs. higher resonance VSF tweeter caps in other speakers and vinage caps in the amp.

When you put them all together the difference is HUGE! Dynamics are not even close. MUCH more dynamic in low resonance channel.

Now to pull out that amp (put in same cap in both channel amp) and just isolate just the tweeter caps.

Duelund in my estimation if the cap resonates you get more perceived high freq sound at the loss of dynamics and bass? Also another question is there a point where the cap is phyically as large as needed? Diminishing return?

This exercise has been extremely worth it.

Duelund don't read this next part. (just kidding) I think one can get much of the Duelund natural sound (if cost is a factor) using the Jensen Copper Paper tubes before the Duelund in the same amp circuit. I think Jensen would be a much better choice then any poly cap.
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Volleyguy,

"I think Jensen would be a much better choice then any poly cap"

No argument.
ait
480 posts
 
Actually, I'm now running the CAST in my preamp and a combination of Mundorf Supreme and Supreme Silver/oil in the following low frequency equalizer/buffer. I find that when I connect the preamp directly I get more of the CAST sound (natural, quiet, tonally accurate) with bass that is slightly overstated. When I put the EQ/buffer in line between the preamp and amp, the Mundorfs give me more spaciality and 3D soundstage together with the Duelund tonality, and reduce the bass just enough that it is no longer overpowering. I experimented a bit and found that the use of ~10uF of Supreme together with .33uF of silver/oil gives me the best combination of detail and smoothness in the EQ application.

So I'm finding that I like the Duelund/Mundorf combination best at this time. YMMV
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Ait

Your comment on the bass on CAST. I would not argue at all. My speakers were known to be bass shy. So the CAST were tailor made. I do not think they overstate the bass though. My feeling (like Steen said) is that all other caps resonate high freq.. CAST do not resonate at all that I can find. So no high freq is added so seems like more bass. I agree with you but you might want to try a VSF after the CAST. I have done this in the tweeters and really like it. The VSF have all the tonality and do resonate somewhat. I find the CAST more demanding on upstream components and source material. VSF is a very forgiving part. Technically not as good as CAST but works for me.

I expect to always use a combination. By the way the Jensen is along the same lines as the CAST.
More to discover