2. amps-preamps
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Which direction would you go?

I have spent the last ten years living with a system that is to my ears unlistenable. I was sucked in by the stereophile recommended components list, and bought based on cost and ratings, rather than common sense and proper auditions. I ended up with the following: B&W 802 Matrix II's, a Threshold S350e amp, a Krell KBL preamp, and a front end comprised of a Theta pro Gen II and Data Mk II. As you might well imagine, I have endured bright, harsh sound in three different homes over the years. I tried room tunes (any buyers?) all manner of cables (I presently own Cardas Cross bi-wire) a CJ premier 10 pre-amp (not enough of a difference to justify the switch) and Cal audio front end. In frustration, I have sold the Krell, and the Threshold, and have active listings for the B&W and Cardas, and plans to sell the Theta as soon as possible. I listen mostly to small scale instrumental and female vocals from various genres. I enjoy Linda Ronstadt, Sara K, Rickie Lee Jones, Allison Krauss, Annie Lennox, Dixie Chicks, Etta James, Karen Carpenter, Joe Sample, Miles, Ronnie Earl, Govi, Willie and Lobo, Lyle Lovett, James Taylor, and so much more. I have front row center seats for the NY Philharmonic for the last fifteen years and have seen more concerts than I could name. I was set on the idea of downsizing to a home theater setup, Integra receiver and DVD/CD with Definitive Technology pro 100 speaker system or maybe the NHT Super Series SB3. They seem to have OK sound on both music and movies, but I wonder if the trade-off is too great since 98% of the time I will be listening to music with only an occasional music video or movie. I am quite certain I have never heard my B&W's perform the way they should, but am not certain I wish to invest more money chasing the Holy Grail. (Also tried Bryston 4B). I have reviewed threads here and contemplated trying the Classe gear. I have also thought about selling the B&W's and buying a speaker with a silk dome tweeter or a propensity toward warmth. (Mission, Soliloquy, JM Labs, Vandersteen) My room is a LIVING room and dining room L shape, (20 x13 living attached to 14 x12 dining) and it is lively with 11' acoustical ceiling. In any event, I would like to avail myself of the multi-channel options while focusing on two channel performance. I keep my speakers on the long wall and listen near-field. I do not believe electrostats are an option for me due to size, placement, and WAF issues. Please let me know your thoughts, and be gentle as this is my first post here on Agon.
mike7142
stehno
1,453 posts
 
Mike, based on your room description, it sounds like may have some serious room acoustic issues causing the sound to be much more bright and alive than it should be.

I would address the room first because some to most of the equipment you list is already on the dark/warm side of life.

Room acoustics good or bad can affect the sound of your system by up to 80%. Look for thick carpeting and padding, beams in the ceiling, bookcases with lots of books, perhaps closing off the room with the equipment with drywall/paneling and a solid 6 panel wood door.

I would also recommend staying away from the multi-channel home theater setup. At least for now. If you become satisfied with the 2-channel setup, then you automatically will have a very nice HT sound as well without stepping down in gear.

-John
rlb61
789 posts
 
Sounds to me like the problem is the amp/pre-amp combo. From my experience, Krell and Threshold components are very bright and "in your face." Mated with the B&Ws, I can see where your ears would be ringing, despite use of the Cardas Cross. Of course, you may have "room" issues, but in my experience such concerns are ususally not THE critical factor.

I'd get rid of the amp/preamp and start over. I have N804s and use a Musical Fidelity A3cr preamp/Musical Fidelity A300cr power amp (225 wpc). The MF stuff is extremely neutral and the choke regulation feature virtually eliminates all grain/distortion. There is simply no fatigue when listening to my system.

The B&Ws are EXTREMELY system dependent and I think you're missing the right synergy. When mated with the right components, the Matrix 802s can really sing, so I think it'd be a waste of great speakers to change. Your front end and cables look good.
mike7142 OP
23 posts
 
First, thanks to all for your input thus far. I am leaning at this point to selling the B&W's for several reasons. First, I don't think I want to spend the required funds trying to build a new system around them, be it with Classe, Musical Fid, Electrocompaniet,etc. I think I would like to try a speaker with soft dome tweeters and do a complete new system around them, because as others have pointed out, I don't think I will ever be happy with the characteristic B&W sound. As for rebuilding my home to alter the room acoustics, I point out that I have had the same complaints in three different residences, not to say that my room couldn't use some attention (After all, whose room couldn't?) I JUST got back from an audition of Totem monitors, and will try to find their floor standers since I liked the sound of their upper registers, but missed the bass. (I am, after all, switching from B&W's) I am also unfamiliar with YBA, but will definitely seek that out as well. Thanks again, and keep it coming.

Mike
drewfidelity
178 posts
 
HI Mike,

A speaker that may work for you would be one of the ProAc Response speakers, I would assume that a used pair of 2.5's would go between 2k and 2.5k. A very musical speaker that is easy on the ears and goes down below 30Hz. Very simple to drive. A great speaker. Not the most detailed, but one of the most musical speakers for someone who likes a bottom end without much on top. Good Luck.
swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
Mike- based on your listening preference which are much the same as mine, I'll let you know what I have found thru a 2 year long upgrade. The one constant I've had, up until this week was Vandersteen 2cis (I just bought the 3Asigs and boy are they awesome. However, the 2cis allowed me to hear the improvements as I went from an top of line Yamaha C2a pre (and not bad sounding at all, I might add) to a ARC SP9 MkII to a BAT VK3i. Then I upgraded the amp from a Moscode 300 to a McCormack DNA 0.5 to a 0.5 Rev.B. The other constant has been a CAL CL-10 front end. The sound was never fatiguing and always had an emotional impact with timbres accurately portrayed. Not the last end in imaging/detail, but never hi-fi sounding or analytical. You could pick up 2cis for about $600 and 2ces for a little more. DNA 0.5s go for $700-$1000 depending on std, dlx or SMc Audio mods. VK3i pre for $900-$1500 depending on configuration. So you could certainly make a wholesale change in direction for $3k or if you sell your 802s, you could step up to 3As and a DNA 1. Beware that this could also be considered a shameless plug since I have most of this equipment for sale now since I've finished my upgrade.
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