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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Duelund

I think you are right.

I am glad you are making a copper version of flat wire. (I would not call it foil as it is not that thin)

I have the feeling that is more important (shape) than the type of metal of the wire? Both copper and Silver have a signature?

I would like to replace my speaker wire (12 gauge Linn) stranded with some flat wire. (I think) At the Silver cost it is not happening.

So is it with wire the thinner and wider the better?
Do you get the best of both world's speed and low freq?
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,975 posts
 
Are you still doing this to the Klipschs? Wouldn't it have been better if performance was your true goal to address the transducers which are poor performing. The cost of the capacitors etc you place before these average at best transducers. Is kind of insane. For what you've spend you could run ALE;) Plus have you rebuilt the cabinets with better plys etc? still using the stock horn mids? If you have not addressed the poor cabinet transducers horns etc as well as crossover. Your just pissin in the wind. But if you enjoy it who am I to say your wrong. But I still will;) Much more to mod in k horn than the networks. And any thing I mentioned would make far greater performance increase than capacitor changes.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
JohnK

I may be crazy, not sure? Is Burt doppenburg still not using the Lascala design? for something? If the design was so bad it would long be forgotten. 60+ years of continuous production is likely for a reason?

I am still using 3/4" birch plywood?

The midrange is the Klipsch dual phase Alnico driver? (only produced for a short time) Known to be the best that at least they ever produced.

I have Alnico tweeters as well. (to be installed)

I can not say compared to your horns John but have found capacitors and wire for that matter to make a huge difference. I know Arthur Salvatore considers Khorns the best vintage speaker ever and amongst the best ever made and a fantastic bargin in the U.S.. I can say mine sound massively better than ANY Klipsch ever produced. (with the Deulund caps inductors and now Duelund Silver wire)

Best speakers ever? I do not know? Certainly not the best looking. Those vintage Tannoy's sure have a fan base? (Alnico magnet ones)

As far as improvements I have found only Duelund caps and inductors to be hands down better (than the vintage parts) and there silver wire. (still testing it)
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
I really like the Duelund Silver wire.

Took me a while to figure out the why? I was expecting it to be better (as it should at many, many x the $) but it is better in a way I did not expect.

The Duelund Silver flat wire makes the cheap stranded wire speaker sound like 3 drivers. The cheap wire will favour what ever instrument that is at it's target range as a driver. Like 3 target zones.

I can not hear any of that with the Silver wire. I really notice this at low volumes (the lower the volume the easier it is to tell) as a seamless speaker with Silver and three chopped upped drivers with stranded copper.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,975 posts
 
I would agree klipsch can be a good value. Still I would buy Altec over Klipsch. And I have found crossover parts do effect sound quality. Not comparing my horn designs to your k horns just feel that the constant change of crossover parts is a bit like a dog chashing his tail. Still feel if you upgraded tweeters to t900a t500amk2 you would hear a much larger improvement over caps changes. Bert doesnt use W bin. But pretty sure he offers plans. I moded a few K horns over the years. Best bet was replacing tweeters, rebuilding cabinets with doubled plys or 1in min. Upgrading networks. I replaced my woofers and ended up using JBL 2440 and dukane copper horn with t500a. When done I had no orignal klipsch parts. So took parts rebuilt a k horn sold them on audiogon. I do enjoy collecting vintage loudspeakers and gave up on moding them much. If working why mess with them you end up with something completely diferant and no longer collectable. But YMMV and if this is fun and of worth to you who am I to rain on your parade
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