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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Been watching the Olympics as they were here.

Undertow nice to see you have liked the Duelund's.

The next Duelund cap should be along shortly for the amp. I am just kind of curious to hear Duelund vs. Jensen.
sherod
1,690 posts
 
Speaking of Tony Gee, did you see his recent review of the Ampohm polyester-in-oil cap? I ordered a pair from The Tube Store to try in my preamp outputs. I'll bet these would sound great in your Klipsch for a lot less money.
Amp Ohm FE-XAL-AL 630VDC Polyester in Oil aluminium foil - 10% tolerance

Technical Specifications (according to manufacturer): "Ampohm Audio Capacitors are specially designed for high performance audio systems. These polyester film capacitors are hand wound using high purity aluminium foil and have their leads hand soldered before being assembled and hermetically sealed in an aluminium housing with phenolic resin and rubber end discs.The 1.0mm diameter tinned copper lead out wires are solder sealed to the eyelets in the end discs This construction results in these components being ideally suited for use as coupling capacitors or as replacements for components in existing designs. Line on label denotes outer foil."

Sound: The Amp Ohm polyester-in-oil alumnium foil is overall very coherent and neutral. This type has a pleasent midrange-highlight when in direct comparison to the Ampohm paper-in-wax alumnium foil type. The polyester-in-oil is very rich and extremely good in retrieving ambient information such as room or hall acoustics. Music is presented in a natural and full-bodied manner. Compared to the Duelund VSF-Cu copper-foil the image is more "see through". Compared to the Mundorf Silver-Gold-Oil the presentation is richer, especially noticable on massed strings or large vocal works. On small jazz-trio's etc the Silver-Gold-Oil high-lights micro detail a little more but doesn't quite reach the same level of overall coherence the polyester-in-oil does so well.

Verdict: 12+

volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sherod

That is indeed high praise of the Ampohm. I seem to recall reading about them in another thread and them getting high praise. I will do some checking.

I may try some as comparison. I have a few vintage amps and all caps do wear out.
johnk's avatar
johnk
1,975 posts
 
One thing thats forgotten in this thread is transducer interaction with network. Just because in one crossover on one loudspeaker someone changed capacitors and say ones better than another is purely subjective. Listeners tastes system room loudspeakers used ex cetera matter as much if not more than part chosen for network. Since so many variables these tests to me are useless. And only tell you weather the person doing test is enjoying the sound not that one caps better than another. And it may well be that they are better in this case but that doesn't mean that if I use in different loudspeaker design with dif crossover type that results would be the same. This is a problem for subjective reviews and testing.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
JohnK

"Since so many variables these tests to me are useless".

That is exactly why I started this thread there is not a number to put on sound of a cap. That being said the general rule of thumb is that Duelund sounds very natural to all who have heard them on this thread or Tony Gee or Tempo's cap review all done on different speakers. So to say the tests are useless is not very accurate at all.

There are of course variables from one human to another. I have mentioned on here before I found Tempo's review to be closer to my own ears anyway.

A quote from Tony Gee

"A hi-Fi system is a very complex sum of many variables, a capacitor is only one part of that total, so depending on implementation things may vary a little. On the other hand you can be assured that capacitor A with a 6 point rating won't "beat" capacitor B with a 10 point rating".

I for one did not find the Silver in Oil rated 10.5 better than the regular Mundorf Supreme rated 9 or at least I did not like the Silver in Oils flaws. Tempo is also on the same side.

Tempo said also a Duelund VSF was 2 or 3x better than a Mundorf Supreme at 6x the cost. Another accurate statement. Is it worth it? Only if you are keeping the speakers.

Now to the Ampohm caps very interesting. They are the OE for Audio Note, correct? So not surprised they are good caps as well and seem to be very good for the $. I found the vintage foil in Mylar to have very good tone.

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