2. speakers
  3. 1211428524

Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Dave

Are you saying to measure the value of the main cap. A cap that is is supposed to be 10uf and measures 9.5uf then you would add the same brand and type of cap in this case .5uf. This is exactly what I did some years ago with a set of Dunlavy's and was disappointed with the overall outcome. I did not mix brands or types in the bypass section. I did change much of everything including the resistors[greatest improvement] and inductors[some] caps[kinda of a letdown] The low pass section required a 120uf cap which I built up from about 30 3.2uf Hitachi film caps that I felt were used sucessfully in other projects. These caps were a different brand than all the rest but were never used together to create another value. I will pickup some MR's now that they are available in smaller values to compare in the tweeter section now used. Tom
dgarretson
2,599 posts
 
Tom, there is no consensus of opinion among the several respected OEM designers that I have spoken with about this. One likes a single cap selected to a strict tolerance, another likes to parallel caps of roughly equal value but hand-selected to make tolerance, a third likes to pad up a base cap using .1-.33uf to make tolerance. I suppose that with this third approach it might be difficult to separate the effects of bypassing from the effects of making tolerance. Then of course there is Tony Gee, who likes small bypass caps and also combinations of different types in mixed ratios for flavoring. So far I have limited experience bypassing MR in crossover. I did try an MR base cap with a .01uf/200V Russian teflon. That combination was a bit edgy. I'd like to repeat that experiment with .01uf/350V Russian silver mica, which has a sweeter treble.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
To clarify, I hate bypassing anything as stated above as well, but the MR - Silver OIL combo works very well, it gels nicely, no dual cap separated sound. And again this was simply pointed out in this "Specific case" for a cost effective way to hit the mid's and highs with a little refinement.
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Undertow

Thank you for your efforts of observation and Clarity..pun intended. What ratio works for you with the combo of MR's and S/O's. Example please.
Thanks Tom
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Theaudiotweak,
Honestly I don't know if there is a specific "Golden Ratio" so to speak.

However, I ended up with a 1 uF Clarity MR bypassed by a .1 uF Silver oil... So I guess a 90% to 10% worked well here, but keep in mind I also was low on my value for the crossover point and needed an additional .1 uF anyway, so if your looking to maybe keep a base cap value that you are already using for example you need a 2.2 uF and it should stay there because you do not want to shift your frequency point to much then you can go with a .01 uF to get the flavor mix.

I don't know, the smaller the better is possibly the key for a bypass as some believe, but in some cases a larger bypass depending on the application could be the way to go.

I have also used a "Battery" config in a friends speaker, which is literally one cap that is 2.2 uF then paralleled with another 2.2 uF for a total of 4.4 uF and ended up with excellent results as well...

For electronics I never liked the bypass cap results, speakers it works well if the right mix and application call for it.
More to discover