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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Undertow,

Since posting my response last night I went out to the North Creek website and in their write-up they mentioned the 8&10awg inductors being associated with both the mid- and low-frequency drivers. Whichever I do, 8awg or 10awg, I think I'll use the same gauge with both drivers for consistency; and for this project I believe the North Creek is the right choice.

Also, the crossover in the Bolero is 1st order:

tweeter: RC
midrange: RLC
woofer: L

Of the following three options:

1:
midrange: 15micF Clarity MR
tweeter: 4.7micF Clarity MR

2:
midrange: 12micF Clarity MR + 3micF Duelund VSF
tweeter: 4.7micF Duelund VSF

3:
midrange: 12micF Clarity MR + 2 x 1.5micF Mundorf S/O
tweeter: 4.7micF Clarity MR

I think option No. 1 seems pretty straightforward, but I sure would appreciate your comments on Nos. 2 & 3.

Thanks again for your help.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Well it is pretty obvious that all combos above would be in the upper echelon of possible crossover choices. I don't see anything wrong with the experiment, but again it all comes down to the total package and sound, and that can vary from design to design I am sure. I have used the Duelund, Clarity combo, but found that 100% Duelund or Clarity were better in my case overall. As for the bypass with the Silver oils and the Clarity MR's that is the best mid cost combo yet I have heard consistentently, and very organic with good dynamics never any edge.

As for the inductors basically the 8 gauge would be the lowest DCR I guess, and yes to some extent in woofers for bass specifically it can help enhance the resolution and lower power level output, in otherwords I recognized that listening at lower levels with these premium inductors helps, at higher levels of volume not as large of a gap. Anyway do some digging, and if you are interested in the pair of 8 gauge I would call northcreek and see what the cost would be for you to reuse them if they would wind them down to a smaller size if necessary, if you need larger than this would do you no good obviously and would be better off just ordering direct. I could ship them to north creek for you and they could ship back to you if it worked out that way. Let me know by email. Thanks
undertow
1,033 posts
 
By the way you plan to run outboard crossovers I assume? Plan for some VERY large outboards if you plan to use the 8 gauge inductors, the ones I have are the size of a Car battery each!
face
516 posts
 
Reynolds,

Unless you plan on redesigning the crossover, the replacement inductor's DCR and inductance should be within 5% of the inductors you're replacing.

I have used the Duelund, Clarity combo, but found that 100% Duelund or Clarity were better in my case overall.
This is my experience as well.
reynolds853
385 posts
 
Undertow and Face,

Thank you both very much for your replies, they were very helpful. Based on your experience, for this project I'm going to go 100% Clarity MR.

As for the inductors, I was planning to match the manufacturer's values but experiment with a heavier gauge. But Face your comments are well received and appreciated. I figure that if I don't go too exotic then I can always backtrack without much loss. I don't know what the gauge of the wire used in the stock inductors in the Boleros is, but it looks pretty dinky. And Undertow, thanks for the warning about the size of the 8awg inductors. Once I had the required inductance values I was going to figure up the layout requirements, but something the size of a car battery is likely bigger than I would can use due to space constraints.

I was just looking at the U.K. site, hificollective, and the Mundorf 10&12awg foil inductors look interesting, particularly the 12awg as they are not too expensive should my foray outside the 5% DCR value Face recommended prove disastrous... and from looking at the stock inductors I'm assuming I'll end up outside that 5% boundary. The same would hold true for the more moderate gauge North Creek inductors too I think. I'm just going to have to get the inductance values I need and have a look at the dimensions of these options to see what's feasible for me.

Well, I think capacitors and resistors are settled: Clarity MR and Duelund CAST, respectively. I'll just have to decide between the North Creek wire and Mundorf foil coils.

I also want to say that, Undertow and Face, I have read all of your posts on this thread and they were exactly what I needed. For this project I needed to make the best compromise I could for cost/performance and I am very confident that the MR is the way to go. Thank you again for your help and for sharing your experience.

John
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