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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
I feel the only true way to do these comparisons, is at a show with the true and the brave manufacturers willing to do a fun comparison, with different cables and all.

It's really not a shoot out or a test, as always taste/preference will have a big factor, it's just a bunch of guys interested in this hobby, having fun.

You Tenor, Lamm, Joule, and others, customers, work on your amp company and see if they want to have some fun in Montreal next year.
Then we will all sit down and have some great Canadian beer and debate the OTL terminology, how better can it get :)
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
I have had a number of e-mails from people interested in knowing more about the direct drive.
Here is a link to a picture of one of the David Berning Prototype Mono's amp/direct drive.
The Garfield ruler is to remind me of what will happen to me if I stick my hand in there.
As of late last night, I did not heed Garfield's warnings and have a nice black and blue finger tip to prove it.

http://www.abw.ns.ca/SimplyMusic/DSCN0055.htm
kevinkwann
85 posts
 
To Jtinn and Mike: Kwann respectfully correct you assumptions.

My friend own Tenor 75 watt amplifiers he buy form dealer for $15k.

Mike say "...but until then we'll all have to just try to compare what we have actually heard." That just what I comment on. I agree. It not close. We just no agree on which amp win. Either my friend. He sell Tenor.
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
Is not "World Class" a debatable issue or is it absolute? Absolutes seem to work best in a religious context and I sure sense a lot of that in this hobby. To each his own.

To my way of thinking the Berning is "world class" just by virtue of such a product existing, not by anything absolute. Can anyone answer if they heard any product at its absolute best? Truth be told, it can probably always get better, at least perceptably so.

I recently had a epiphany of sorts involving a friend's very familiar vintage system. A major transformation in musical involvement was realized by changing out ONE set of interconnect cables. This simple change did more than my Berning amp did in the same system without the cable swap. I couldn't believe it so I went over a few days later and heard the same thing.

Of the absolute "among the best" what is the absolute best? Let your ears guide you Luke. For as you travel this path ye shall one day realize that it is a never ending journey and nothing is absolute excepting ye shall keep searching.
mikelavigne OP
2,199 posts
 
Kevin....ok...i'll bite....since until about a month ago i owned the only set of Kharma Exquisite 1Ds in the world and i am wondering just how you have such extensive experience with them to be sure they are "not a great speaker" and that some mystery speaker such as the Fischer & Fischer SL1000 "is better in every way than the Kharma 1D". a statement like that might not be too credible if you have never ever heard a Kharma Exquisite 1D (which is most likely the case).

if you want your comments on the Lamm ML1 or the Tenor75Wi to be considered seriously please confine yourself to judgements on products you have heard.

you also mention that your speakers are 88db efficient, if they also have a 4ohm impedence load or lower they would not be appropriate for the Tenor 75Wi and would cause the performance problems you describe. an OTL amplifier is great when used as intended, but is not as flexible as a conventional designe, such as the Lamm ML1.
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