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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
tireguy
1,964 posts
 
Mike- it is shameless!! my technics tt is far superiour to that rockport junk you use! What ever it takes to make one pleased with there system, emotional envolvement, to me a system what has good PRaT is usually a good system overall-I haven't heard many that I feel really get my foot tapping and get me as involved as my rhythmless self can be :) I just spent more on an interconnect then I did on my first mid-fi system-I am really starting to enjoy the sound though, so its worth it. btw I don't even own a turn table-but if I did I would use dental floss for the belt(can't afford that air drive stuff yet) with many knots in it!

And down with the berning cross :) had to throw my .02 in-lol I don't own tenor or berning and I have never heard the berning so I am just making a statement in jest-don't wave your berning torch in my direction!! don't want to get flammed.....ok I am really done now.

~Tim
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
Tim, Berning amps are like a bad virus, just come close and you got one :)
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
in my pursuit of musical nirvanna i had spent some big dollars but still was unfullfilled......then i heard a friends system much more modest than mine that gave me much more musical pleasure and involvement...

Mike, I am so glad you said this, it makes me feel even more so that you do now have something really special going and not one of those, I spent it, they told me it was the best and it is, types.
Maybe that's why the Berning owners were so fast to disbelieve, these sort of money systems are really well known to everyone, well except to the guys with the money, as not being musical and pretty disappointing at times.
The Berning owners know what they have and I could tell you, I and others have done a few other shoot outs with more expensive well regarded amps and they were nowhere in the class as the Bernings.

So I think we both learned a couple things and some people were surprised in both camps.
The Berning camp must realize that there are products in the mega dollar class that are not a component status thing only and has real audio value.
Some in the Tenor camp has to come to grips with the fact that the Berning designs are at par to anything, it's easier to build a phenomenal amp at any cost, than to build a great amp at a steal.
twl
3,251 posts
 
As an add to Allan's post, I think that the ZOTL design is the major reason why the amp can perform much higher than it costs. ZOTL allows much fewer parts and eliminates the real costly ones like the big$ output transformer and large banks of tubes. So you get the best of both worlds, lower cost and high performance. I hope David brings out a cost-no-object flagship amp that will get him the recognition he deserves for his innovative design. That would be an unbelievable shootout!
jtinn
1,124 posts
 
Allanbhaganinfo: I do have to disagree with your statement of "it's easier to build a phenomenal amp at any cost, than to build a great amp at a steal." I think one comes to expect more from an amp with a very high cost and make excuses for amps at a lower cost. "It only costs $4000, what do you expect?" My reference is not intended for any specific amplifier.

The point is an amp that costs $20k or more better sound great. Most often, a high price tag does not necessarily assure good sound, only that it may have been much more expensive to produce.

The Berning amps are quite good for the money as are many other amps in that price range or lower (George Wright's amlifiers for one.) Does this mean that they are comparable with something like the Tenor's, Lamm's or Atma-sphere's? No way!!!

Those out there under the impression they will get the same quality sound if they buy the Berning amps over the top amps costing quite a bit more, should realize that, in this case, you get what you pay for.

By the way, Mike Lavigne's system is the absolute best I have ever heard. I put together the Tenor/Rockport room at CES, that all the reviewers say was the best sound they ever heard, and I tell you, it does not even compare to Mike's system. If you ever happen to get the chance to hear it, your definition of good sound, will change forever.
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