Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

NOS, NOS, NOS tubes!

I haven't had the luxury of hearing either amp, but after reading this thread I would strongly consider a Berning. I had been considering the Atma-sphere M-60's, but the thought of the Berning with considerably fewer tubes, very little heat and with phenomenal sound is very intriguing.

One thing I am surprised at in this thread is the few mentions of NOS tubes for the Berning. From my own personal experience, NOS tubes can make a tremendous difference. The Berning apparently had stock tubes and it wasn't embarrassed in this shoot-out. Amazing considering the price difference. But I would love to see you guys re-create the shoot-out with NOS tubes in the Berning. I think I recall reading in one of the earlier posts that the Tenors had stock tubes also, but for the sake of argument, I wonder how things would differ if the Berning had NOS and the Tenors didn't. I know it is not necessarily fair to restrict the Tenors, but lets face it, this comparison wasn't fair to begin with if you look at the price difference. I agree with an earlier poster that it is simply unbelievable that the Berning was even in the ballpark.

It would also be interesting to leave the Berning on overnight in the system and then continue the shoot-out. My tube gear definitely sounds better after being on for a few hours.

Once again, I remind you of the Seigfried. It is a better comparison. As I said before, the ZH270 is push pull with feedback, and the Seigfried 811/300B is single ended with no feedback. It has less power, but it is the top of the line Berning. Someone should do a shootout with it against the smaller Tenors, so the power levels would be similar. I think that would be a much closer call.

My Berning with NOS tubes sounded much better that with the stock JAN Phillips/Russian tubes. Glare was gone. Detail much better. Bass much improved. It was like a "new" amp upgrade. I have the MicroZOTL and put in Mullard NOS 6201(12AT7) and Sylvania NOS 6SN7-WGT(1940's). Improvement was NOT subtle. Entire re-tube was under $200. I know nobody thinks the little MicroZOTL at 1 watt per channel can be a heavyweight sonic contender, but that is wrong. With the right high efficiency speaker, it is one of the sweetest sounding amps you can buy. Do not underestimate this little amp. It is truly a "David" in a world of "Goliaths". For those on a budget that want world class sound, this is the best way I can think of to do it. I am not pulling your leg, this is for real. If you've already got a great main system, and you are thinking of putting together a second system for the office or bedroom, or something, you can use the MicroZOTL with a set of high eff. spkrs. and a single source(no preamp needed, has volume control). You will get audio nirvana for peanuts. No, it will not simulate the sound levels of the Pink Floyd concert at Shea Stadium. But, for real world enjoyment it will do nicely. It is truly, as Harvey "Dr. Gizmo" Rosenberg put it," The best $750 amp in the world." And I will add, better than many amps that I've heard up to ten times its price. Definitely worth checking out. Must use NOS tubes to fully realize the quality.

There is a point of diminishing returns when we talk about high-end audio. One has to spend quite a bit more money to get that last bit of refinement. The Tenor's are MUCH better than the Berning's, given the proper speaker match. The Lamm's are better as well as are all the Atma-sphere's. If the load is REALLY difficult, the transformer on the Berning will help it outperform OTL's in one area, the point where the impedance drops the most. That is all.

I have heard the Berning's and like them quite a bit. I truly think they are a fine product and a real value. I also like the BAT VK-60's which actually go for a lot less money on the used market. I would easily choose the AS M60's over the Berning's if, again the speaker was not a tough load. Some of the lower priced Joule amps are also right in there.

The trick is to put a fine amp in a mediocre system and see what happens, not to put a good amp in an exceptional system. When Michael was waiting for his Exquisites, he could not wait to listen to his Tenor's. He pulled out an old pair of KEF's and was amazed at the sound that he heard. He could not believe his was enjoying the KEF's the way he was. In a system as "dialed in" as Michael's, I doubt any amp would actually sound "bad". I know this kind of cuts at the Berning's, and that is not my real intention. I just think some of the responses in this thread are not very realistic.

For me, this thread is over. Many of you have not read my posts carefully enough. I have stated the same thing many times in this discussion and a few of you hear what you want to hear. Mike was nice enough to have David over so David could hear his amps in his system. David loved it and had the chance to hear a comparison with the Tenor's. He stated that "As one who was there, I would have to say that the difference in sound between the two amps was not subtle - the Tenors were clearly the more satisfying". It is the way it is.

A Ford Taurus will get you from point A to point B, just as a BMW 740IL will. Which would you rather ride in?

i am really disappointed that my thread did not get to 100 posts in one week......come on guys.....where's the passion?

i think we beat this issue into submission......