2. amps-preamps
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Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270

in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.

i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.

these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.

we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.

like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.

the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.

i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.

we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
mikelavigne
jtinn
1,124 posts
 
There is a point of diminishing returns when we talk about high-end audio. One has to spend quite a bit more money to get that last bit of refinement. The Tenor's are MUCH better than the Berning's, given the proper speaker match. The Lamm's are better as well as are all the Atma-sphere's. If the load is REALLY difficult, the transformer on the Berning will help it outperform OTL's in one area, the point where the impedance drops the most. That is all.

I have heard the Berning's and like them quite a bit. I truly think they are a fine product and a real value. I also like the BAT VK-60's which actually go for a lot less money on the used market. I would easily choose the AS M60's over the Berning's if, again the speaker was not a tough load. Some of the lower priced Joule amps are also right in there.

The trick is to put a fine amp in a mediocre system and see what happens, not to put a good amp in an exceptional system. When Michael was waiting for his Exquisites, he could not wait to listen to his Tenor's. He pulled out an old pair of KEF's and was amazed at the sound that he heard. He could not believe his was enjoying the KEF's the way he was. In a system as "dialed in" as Michael's, I doubt any amp would actually sound "bad". I know this kind of cuts at the Berning's, and that is not my real intention. I just think some of the responses in this thread are not very realistic.

For me, this thread is over. Many of you have not read my posts carefully enough. I have stated the same thing many times in this discussion and a few of you hear what you want to hear. Mike was nice enough to have David over so David could hear his amps in his system. David loved it and had the chance to hear a comparison with the Tenor's. He stated that "As one who was there, I would have to say that the difference in sound between the two amps was not subtle - the Tenors were clearly the more satisfying". It is the way it is.

A Ford Taurus will get you from point A to point B, just as a BMW 740IL will. Which would you rather ride in?
mikelavigne OP
2,200 posts
 
i am really disappointed that my thread did not get to 100 posts in one week......come on guys.....where's the passion?

i think we beat this issue into submission......
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
i think we beat this issue into submission......

More like drove it into submission, with a ford Taurus.
allanbhaganinfo
121 posts
 
Jtinn.
The interconnect used was not the same, the feedback setting was not tried, the amp was 6 years old.

let's do the blind test in Montreal, Tenors home town.

Talk is cheap, wait... in this case, talk is expensive!!!!
thorty40
149 posts
 
This is silly, the Berning will compete easily with the Tenors. Sorry Jtinn, I WILL put my money where my mouth is, I have no reservations. I don't care how much $$$$ we are talking about, money does not always equate better sound. Let the people be the judge in this instance, "Lets get ready to rumblllllle!!!!". :)

If the Berning is embarrassed by the Tenors, then so be it. If the opposite happens, then be prepared to face the music. I am ready to face off, lets go. Enough talk, if the Tenors are + $15,000 better then lets hear it and be done. This is totally silly until we face off. Let the audiophiles decide!! :)

This is alot of fun, I don't care what criticism becomes of this.

I also don't care when this happens, lets just be civil about it and arrange something, even if its at a CES or whatever. This is great :) Jtinn, this is great thread whether you like me or not :)

Best Regards,
Chris

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