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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
irish65
170 posts
 

Tom,

I've been meaning to get up with you. I have used the Cascade on inductors but in an inductor power supply for my Wadia. In this case I did not hear the before so as you I cannot comment.

As you know I have used it and it does work well with coating the inside of a speaker cabinet as you have mentioned. I have used it on expensive drivers and in the end I threw the drivers away.

The potting compound was designed for the application that is mentioned with the inductors. Look at Tweek Geek and click the new Bybee conditioner. They have the lid off and you will see they have potted everything. So potting a transformer in an amp or CDP is possible.

Potting a North Creek inductor allows you to fill the center and put a 1/4x20 brass spacer while wet. Once dry run a 1/4x20 brass bolt thru it to the bottom of the xover into a brass 1/4x20 insert. It will act as an Audiopoint. Just keep the inductor 1/4 inch of the bottom of the xover.

From my experience there is no silver bullet with this stuff. If the drivers have excessive resonance then I am sure the Cascade would work great. In the application I was applying it, as you are familiar with, it was counter productive.
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
Roger,

As you know there is a big benefit in hard coupling any power transformer to the chassis with brass instead of the ferrous steel and rubber materials usually the defaults in audio. With the inductors coated in Cascade I plan on the outboard crossover components hard mounted with insulating washers made of mypingo the same wood that clarinets are made and then direct coupled with brass fasteners and audiopoints to either a panel of mypingo or brass. I plan on using the same method with the Clarity D Tact caps which maybe by accidental design are perfect for the same mechanical grounding methods as will be applied to the inductors. The same mechanical tuning methods that you and I know work so well with speaker drivers and cabinets can also be applied and tuned easily to the components of an outboard speaker crossover or power supply. Perhaps non potted components will react more musically to outboard tuning than ones that are damped or overdamped by potting methods alone? Tom
theaudiotweak
2,801 posts
 
May Duelund comment here on the possible benefit of doping a speaker inductor and the reduction/lowering of its Q ? Tom
rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Irish65,

Thanks for your response. It was pretty much what I expected and as you say, one cap and a couple inductors in series, everything makes a difference and every change can be heard.

I shudder to think what you spent on the Dueland silver pieces but I understand your thinking. If your speakers are keepers, as mine are, then you might as well get the very best out of them. I know from experience, silver(done right) can take things up to another level.

I recently dropped some serious change on new Siltech G7 Series silver/gold interconnects and speaker cables and all I can say is, WOW! Like making a major component upgrade. I had a similar but less dramatic experience some years ago switching from Kimber's copper phono cable to their silver TAK cable; big improvement.

Though I'm "married with children" and quite happy with the Mundorf Silver/Oil, Goertz mix, I may look into the CAST copper inductors too. Since I already have the CAST copper caps coming, now might be a good time to do a total Dueland "makeover"?

reynolds853
388 posts
 
I want to thank each of you again for the help you have given me and for sharing your thoughts and experiences. You have all been very thoughtful with your responses, and very generous with your time that it took to write them, and I again wanted to express my appreciation. Given the philosophical nature of some of the recent responses, I wanted to explain the reasoning behind the course I have decided to take so as to avoid giving the impression with any future questions that I had not appreciated or recognized the wisdom of your suggestions.

I have speakers that I intend to own for a long time and I could live with them as-is very happily. I would not have bought them otherwise. I believe that Duelund CAST would be the best way to extract their full potential, but as I have mentioned previously my goal with this project is to extract as much from them as I can on a smaller budget.

When I decided to undertake this project the caps that immediately came to mind were Mundorf Supreme, Mundorf S/O, Mundorf S/G/O, Clarity MR, and Deulund VSF. I arrived at the decision to try the Clarity MR was based on the following:

- As I read this thread, and I have read it in its entirety, the MR was for one of you the last cap standing, so-to-speak, before the full transition into Duelund, so I figured that was a good place to start.

- My experience with the Mundorf S/G/O was with a Dynaudio Esotec tweeter. This project involves a Dynaudio Esotar tweeter. The fact that I am already making such a big change from my previous speaker makes me willing to establish a new baseline with the MR, Tony Gee's comments about its sonic nature notwithstanding.

- Neither the S/O and S/G/O are available in a 15mF value and I'd rather just try a single MR.

- While the MR is certainly a compromise compared to the Duelund, several of its attributes described on this thread are appealing.

- I do not foresee to changing my preamp, amp or cablin. I have access to quite a lot of tubes that I can use to make further refinements as long as the MR gets me close to where I want to be.

- Duelund CAST resistors are a no-brainer.

- From my prior project I know I want to try larger inductors, but which ones, that is the question. That's where the most recent responses have been so helpful. I haven't decided which way to go yet. A potted North Creek is attractive because I could just send the stock inductors to North Creek, have them measure their values, and then build the new ones. On the other hand, there's a chart on the Mundorf website showing how quiet the 10awg foil inductor is already, and maybe I could pot one of those. I'd just get my stock inductors measured elsewhwere. I'm still digging around trying to figure this one out, but the fact that you guys told me about doing this is really great and I am truly thankful to you.

John
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