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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
reynolds853
386 posts
 
Irish,

Thank you for your reply. I did not take your suggestions as your trying to pound across your point. I am keenly aware that you and the other members are genuinely trying to help. Your sincerity has never been lost on me, and the time you have taken to help me has always been appreciated.

I was feeling bad that you and several others were spending more of your time trying to provide guidance when in fact I had reached a comfortable launching point for the project based not only on your advice but for reasons I had not communicated – based on the merits of the MR cap as well as through a process of elimination of other options that I just didn't want to try. I wanted to acknowledge your replies - I certainly did not want to come across as ignoring your suggestions or as being unappreciative. The only considerate thing I could think to do was to explain my thoughts more completely. I am glad that you received my explanation in the friendly spirit in which it was intended.

Undertow and Irish,

I finished writing the above note and just found your comments about the Jupiter HT cap. There's certainly no problem with throwing a monkey in the wrench! I'm going to dig around a little and come back with a few questions if you both don't mind. As always, I appreciate your help!
rfogel8's avatar
rfogel8
192 posts
 
Irish65,

Yep, I'm using a .22mH inductor on the tweeter, the other is a .665. I know, everybody makes a .668 but a friend(he too rolls his own) and I decided after much listening, that we slightly preferred a value of .665 on the ScanSpeak. Alpha Core was more than willing to make them for us. If I went with Dueland CAST, I could live with .668 and in the end, the sound would be ever so slightly more laid back; not necessarily a bad thing.

I always make my crossovers external; hate those vibrations! So... how much am I really going to gain by using Dueland's potted coils? I know, it's probably more than just their compression/potting technique? On the other hand, copper is copper and once you get past 99.99% pure, blah, blah, blah, what's the difference?

Another question; I have a pair of Goertz silver foil inductors lying around here collecting dust. I forget the values(definitely higher than .22mH) but my buddy has the capability to measure them so we could easily trim them down to .22mH. Would I be better off using the silver Goertz on the tweeters and Dueland copper on the mids or do you think Dueland copper throughout would be the better way to go? I've been looking for a home for those Goertz!

How 'bout internal hook-up wire? Basically, from tweeters and mids to external crossover, approx. 23" x 4 for each satellite; total 184". I've been using multi strand silver from Purist Audio and once again, don't hear any problems.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards, Bob
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Irish65

I am going to order a Duelund tweeter inductor. After reading your post on the tweeter inductor and the difference I have to see.

I am going to start with WPIO Duelund. I did not change the series tweeter inductor thinking how much difference can it make?

That has been one great thing about this thread what you often think does not matter does.

Only one question what about changing the DCR? I did not find the North Creek 10 guage woofer inductor to my liking. I am not sure how much was caused by the DCR change or it not being a wax paper inductor as the original was and the Duelund I ended up using.

Have you compared WPIO and CAST as tweeter inductors?
irish65
170 posts
 
Bob,

If a .665mH inductor works best then I would get that value. You mentioned Alpha Core being able to manufacture that specific value. Duelund will also be able to.

Even if your xovers are external you still are going to have mechanical vibration. Electric current passing thru caps/inductors/resistors will create some degree of this. Taking your xovers out of a speaker cabinet is no doubt a better way to go than internal. However, you will, to a lesser degree, have mechanical vibration.

Is all copper created equal if you are using alloy 101 or 99.99 copper? Most of the copper I have used in audio is not soft annealed. If it isn't then it will act more like an antenna and produce microphonics more than soft annealed.
Secondly the geometry of the copper is as important as the quality of the copper itself. With Duelund using soft annealed copper and the geometry being foil maybe this is what makes them a cut above other caps I have tried.

The same applies to silver. Try a copper inductor against the silver. Only you can decide what is best. If I was a betting man I know what horse I would lay my money down on.

Regarding the wiring I will leave that question alone. But will say it does pay great dividends to use a high quality wire for inside the cabinets and the xovers themselves.
irish65
170 posts
 
Volleyguy,

I am not sure what gauge inductor you currently use but the Duelunds are 12 awg. So the DCR should be close to what you are using if it is a 14-12 awg inductor.

I have not compared the WPIO inductors to the Cast. I have compared numerous VSF caps to Cast. From my experience the inductor is the most critical. Once you hear the noise other inductors introduce compared to the Cast it makes it easier to reach for the checkbook.

I would like to hear from any other member who has experience with the Duelund Cast inductors. It can be silver or copper.
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