Your choice of EL34's

Albert, I'm sure you've listened to many tubes that I never will, but I suspect that if I could, I might only somewhat disagree with you in degree, not in kind. I do not at all dispute that tubes can greatly affect the quality of the sound, and that there are times when an older tube, even an extensively used tube, can have the superior sound. Most of my tube-rolling using vintage tubes has taken place in my guitar amps, and there has even been an occassion when the best sounding tube was an "obsolete" metal-case oldie. I will admit that these experiments were done with tubes that I just scrounged up, not pristine NOS bought for big bucks from a dealer. But I have also done a little dabbling with mail-order NOS in my hi-fi preamp, and mostly been disapointed, with noisy, ringy results. And with power output tubes, I've always found that freshness does matter. Obviously, it's possible to manufacture either a superior or an inferior tube, and it is probable that some of the best would have been made in the tube's heyday. But it is also possible that someone could make a top-quality tube today. In addition, I think it is quite likely that some amount of snobbery and opportunism has attached itself to the NOS market, as will happen with any scarce or no longer made commodity. If I had the patience and werewhithal to hunt down premium NOS and do all the comparing, maybe I would reach conclusions similar to yours. But this is clearly not for everybody, and motivation, in the form of dissatisfying sound, would also have to be present. I think that in a case such as the Svetlana EL-34's, that someone might be manufacturing a tube right now that is about as good as anything ever made, a position some reveiwers have taken on this tube. I like what I hear with this product enough that in my rig, I am not really curious to go down the NOS road (and they've been very durable). YMMV!

When the best tubes were manufactured, they were the industry that brought the brightest minds and biggest budgets into play, much like the aerospace or computer industry today.

The materials and manufacturing quality control standards (especially for Military versions) were often "cost no object." This was due to the fact that we were at war and fighting for our very survival.

The Russian tubes are good, no doubt. They are however the product of great American marketing, where we find cheap labor (China as well) and make a decent knock off. The true cost of a Svetlana EL 34 is less than 50 cents. No doubt a great value for the money, but hardly state of the art.

If your equipment does not benefit from the better quality, then you are blessed. I am after the best sound reproduction available and will not compromise on tubes, even if you perceive it as snobbish.

Albert: Thanks for the tip on KT77's (never heard or heard of them). I will add them to my hit list when we are on our thrift and flea outings. Currently looking for #50's for a friend. All of the old repair shops have already been stripped by a local tube dealer (years ago), but I do run across good tubes from time to time. I picked up a NOS pair of XF1's a few month's ago for $20 (in a CEC Mullard box and the tubes are stamped Dynaco). I had thought of selling them, but decided that I could not afford to replace them. LOL.

Dekay.

The joys of tube hunting! I scored some Mullard dual getter XF2' EL34's on EBAY some months ago by a seller in Hong Kong. His rating was not built up yet and buyers were afraid to bid. I wrote him a note to which he quickly and courteously responded, and I placed my bid.

In the end I scored a total of 8 for $160.00, only twenty bucks a hit. This is not normal, but those who want the quality and are willing to shop, it is a great way to bring up your high end systems performance for a very fair price.

Well, I didn't mean to give the impression that I find Albert's pursuit of the best possible sound snobbish. But I do think that the high-end industry as a whole, and the NOS tube sub-industry, does drive its marketing and pricing strategies, in part, from a snob-appeal perspective. I'm not saying anything revolutionary, of course, and this business is hardly the only one to indulge in it. (I do think that the music lover can suffer for it these days, but I also have to admit that the snob-appeal angle "works" on me to some extent, as I'd warrant it does with most audiophiles, aesthetes of the picayune that we are.) But if it's fair to criticize the modern product by suggesting that it only costs .50 cents to manufacture it, then its also fair to criticize the NOS business by suggesting that an old tube didn't cost $100 to manufacture, either.

Actually, this whole topic begs a question that I, as a tube user with a distaste for the vagaries of NOS-chasing, find very interesting to ponder. Why couldn't the tube-component industry, maybe in conjunction with the guitar-amp makers, form a consortium to design and manufacture a modern line of tubes that would take full advantage of the latest technologies and manufacturing capabilities? It's already been proven that people will pay a premium for the best, and equipment makers would love to be able to depend on a reliable supply. I think that, as a whole, the modern tube gear industry is probably large enough to make such an undertaking feasible, and that it would be profitable in the long run, even if very expensive as a start-up proposition. (Look, for instance, at what Kron Enterprises has been able to accomplish, or at least attempt, on their own.) Maybe a new generation of "super-tubes" could help tube gear catch up in some of the areas where SS has advanced beyond what was acceptable performance before the latest generation of speakers and digital sources upped the ante. I believe tubes are obviously here to stay, and that there is no reason in theory why a superior product couldn't be made today for the future, same as transistors or chips.