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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
k2_nl
13 posts
 
Hi Cady,

I haven't got experience with coupling caps. Never tried it out as for this application the experiences in general are not positive with multiple parallel caps. And it probably will be even more worse with multiple parallel caps built with different brands/types.

Kees
duelund_coherent_audio
110 posts
 
Kees,

I didn't mean that all parameters were in fact equal. I just meant that, it's a consideration that you substitute pure foil in the case of our caps with solder joints. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather sell 15 1s than 1 15... ;)
reynolds853
386 posts
 
For my speakers I want to maintain as precisely as possible the original 1800Hz and 3500Hz crossover points. For the capacitors and inductors I will certainly maintain their original values, but I am wondering if I should be thinking too of the overall resistance of the original crossover – should I maintain that as well?

The speaker has a 1st order crossover:
Tweeter: capacitor and resistor
Mid-range: capacitor, resistor ,inductor
Woofer: inductor

Let's say the tweeter circuit has a stock capacitor with a resistance of 2ohms and the resistor has a resistance of 2ohms giving a total of 4ohms. If the new capacitor I install has a resistance of 3ohms, should I decrease the resistor to 1ohm to maintain the 4ohm total for the circuit? The same question would apply to the capacitor associated with the mid-range driver.

For the inductors, I plan to use larger gauge coils than those that are in the speaker now, hence introducing lower resistance components. Should I add a resistor in series with each inductor to maintain the total resistance of those circuit branches?

Since I plan to use Duelund CAST resistors, I'm sure I would be able to request resistors with values permitting me to maintain the original total resistance of each component, but I am wondering if I am correct in thinking about it this way?

The alternative I think would be to just install RLC components that maintain the original values and let the overall resistance of each circuit drift a little from its original value.

I appreciate your recommendations, and as always, thanks for your help,

John
k2_nl
13 posts
 
Hi Frederik,

One 15 uF cap has two soldering joints and 15 x 1 uF has 30 soldering joints?

This is correct of course but do you expect a change in soundquality because of the difference in number of the soldering joints? With capacitors in series I can see the increase of soldering joints can be an issue, however with capacitors in parallel I expect the larger number of soldering joints is less of a problem.

I've experienced the sonic effect of bad soldering joints in speaker xovers and at this point I fully agree with you. I can't be stated enough to pay good attention to it (especially when you use the more difficult to work with high Ag content solder). Bad joints result in lousy sound with strange effects on soundstaging.

The difference in the number of soldering joints I expect however not to be responsible for the good effects that I experienced with multiple parallel caps (a cap built with different values and all being of the same type/manufacturer).

The picture of a multiple parallel VSF-cap (the manufacturer used large values in combination with smaller values) I once saw on the internet (I think it was the Duelund-site) fascinated me. If the results are similar to those I experienced with the Obbligato's, I expect the transparancy of the Duelund cap will increase even further. I would be interested to know how for instance a 10 uF CAST Cu PIO helds up to 2,2 and 8,0 uF CAST Cu PIO.

As this forum is visited by quite a lot of Duelund afficianados that are willing to invest a lot of money on caps I was hoping that one of them would be in for the test ;-)

Kees
jburidan
803 posts
 
Is there a third Dueland cap called 'Black'? If so, where can I find more information?
Thanks.
Jay
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