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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Tom
Not sure what you are saying? Are you talking about the Duelund inductor? or something else or everything? Not hard at all to hear one speaker compared to the other? Mono recordings.

Both speakers are still hooked up? Much tougher to do from memory, I think. I think at fist of course we hear change but is it better? After a long period of time hearing both speakers the newness wears off and you really know if you like it better.

I think buying gear in the store on a 1 hour demo is crazy!

If one changes both channels you are going by memory back and forth. In the beginning I kept one speaker stock and the other changed with new parts. Better was REALLY easy to hear at times not so at others.

Yes there are image issues for sure. When you have one speaker with Duelund Silver wire and the other with stranded copper plastic they almost sound out of phase.

This can be a difficult test.
undertow
1,033 posts
 
Theaudiotweak,
I have argued this point of testing one stereo channel at a time from the beginning with this project way back... So I just wanted to state it has been pointed out several times. Nobody seemed to care, basically Duelund is a very good cap no doubt. Single or pair fine, but many fine caps that are easily in competition have been looked over and they need to be heard in pairs including the duelunds...

You cannot ultimately take it too serious without a pair working, way to many factors involved, a single fitted inductor on one speaker vs. two will definitely sound harsher, but the combination of 2 higher resolution pieces together can in fact sound smoother and bigger than the originals. Its just not the way it was tested in this thread.

And again it goes back to the point this is one of the harder designs to deal with being a K-horn, your old school, locked into a corner, very difficult acoustic environment and several other factors to feed a system like this. They are good, but its difficult to say ultimately what is working better or not from the info on this thread.
theaudiotweak
2,797 posts
 
Undertow

Yes I know their are others that have argued the point against the test methods involved. I did not revisit all 1400 posts I suppose my post had to do with how one's body may react to the nature of the test procedure. We don't react to music with just our ears but also with our skin, bones, muscles as well as our eyes.

Resonance control in the form of mechanical grounding should have been applied to these speakers before this whole process was started. The largest radiator is the cabinet not the speaker drivers.

Even though these speakers are meant to be corner loaded having the pair side by side in the middle of the room may also offer a more plausible placement for voicing. The corners may be built out differently, one corner being on an inside wall one being on an outside wall. The structure and integrity of these areas may differ in rigidity. One speaker maybe located closer to or even over a support beam in the house which could influence the perceived outcome. Openings into the room left or right may change the frequency balance. Tube age or differential in switches balance controls and volume controls could also alter perception.

Being a Doubting Thomas by nature I still have to give Volleyguy credit for starting this whole public adventure. Probably he has given many members further favorable thoughts and a few doubts as how to advance their own sound system. Tom
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Tom

In the start of this thread I was not really trying to sway someone one way or the other. Just hoping to give someone an idea of what to expect. (info I was looking for) I do say try for one to try themself and give a good idea where to start, like tweeter caps.

I could make a really good case against changing in pairs. You must then go to memory. How accurate is one's memory? Mine is not very good. I can go from speaker to speaker and feel it out over a long period of time, with the money already being spent. Duelund is not about imaging but harmonic structure.

I also think when we first buy something we hear something different, but is it better? Time does tell this. I think there is bias to when buying in pairs to think it better after all we spent a pile of money it better be better!

Take the speaker wire for example I bought enough for one speaker from Irish65. After a long period of time I have sent him money to buy the other side.

It is just simply better. It is not that I wanted to send Irish a pile of money!

I must admit my biggest worry is someone is going to come out with something better than CAST or VSF for $50 a cap! In fact that is what made me buy Ampohms, but no way. They tilt the sound. Is the Alexander going to be that? As good as CAST for 1/10 the money?

There must have been a reason Steen thought that this must be hand made? He did say for example an inductor would have to be big and have a lot of copper (or Silver or whatever) no way around it.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Sorry that response should have been to Undertow who has been skeptical of testing methods all along.

I did buy several amps at the start of the test but have been using just two lately and only one for the last while. This is for lazy reasons (now) it takes awhile to change all those caps. In fact at the start I used (several) tube and modern SS and (still) vinyl and digital. I felt like Tom I wanted to make sure it was not somethign else. Now there is no doubt to me.

I must say again I am using Lascala's and the crossover is going into Khorns which are of course more difficult to work with and as pointed out are corner sensitive so maybe not ideal for a test. I can also say I have owned these speaker for 30yrs so am very familiar as to how they sound.

I have a friend who did buy Khorns (and same amp) after hearing these speakers and after listening to some very expensive systems. He is in the process of doing a whole sound room. (I think he is becoming obsessed)

I have also said he thinks both speakers sound fantastic Duelund Silver wire or not. He does admit to hearing a difference (cleary) but does not know what to make of it?
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