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Capacitor log Mundorf Silver in Oil

I wished I could find a log with information on caps. I have found many saying tremendous improvement etc. but not a detailed account of what the changes have been. I have had the same speakers for many years so am very familiar with them. (25+ years) The speakers are a set of Klipsch Lascala's. They have Alnico magnets in the mids and ceramic woofers and tweeters. The front end is Linn LP12 and Linn pre amp and amp. The speaker wire is 12 gauge and new wire.

I LOVE these speakers around 1 year ago they started to sound like garbage. As many have said they are VERY sensitive to the components before them. They are also showing what I think is the effect of worn out caps.

There are many out here on these boards I know of that are using the Klipsch (heritage) with cheaper Japanese electronics because the speakers are cheap! (for what they can do) One thing I would recommend is give these speakers the best quality musical sources you can afford. There is a LOT to get out of these speakers. My other speakers are Linn speakers at around 4k new with Linn tri-wire (I think about 1k for that) and the Klipsch DESTROY them in my mind. If you like "live feel" there is nothing like them. In fact it shocks me how little speakers have improved in 30 years (or 60 years in the Khorns instance)

In fact I question Linn's theory (that they have proved many times) that the source is the most important in the Hi-Fi chain. Linn's theory is top notch source with lessor rest of gear including speakers trumps expensive speakers with lessor source. I think is right if all things are equal but Klipsch heritage are NOT equal! They make a sound and feel that most either LOVE or hate. (I am in the LOVE camp and other speakers are boring to me)

So here goes and I hope this helps guys looking at caps in the future. Keep in mind Klipsch (heritage Khorns Belle's and Lascala's especially) are likely to show the effects of crossover changes more then most.

1 The caps are 30 years old and
2 the speakers being horn driven make changes 10x times more apparent.

Someone once told me find speakers and components you like THEN start to tweak if needed. Don't tweak something you not in love with. Makes sense to me.

So sound
Record is Let it Be (Beatles)
The voices are hard almost sounds like a worn out stylus.
Treble is very hard. I Me Mine has hard sounding guitars. Symbals sound awful. Everything has a digital vs. analog comparison x50! Paul's voice not as bad as John's and George's. Voices will crack.

different lp
Trumpets sound awful. Tambourine terrible. Bass is not great seems shy (compared to normal) but the bad caps draw soooooo much attention to the broken up mid range and hard highs that are not bright if anything it seems the highs are not working up to snuff. I have went many times to speaker to make sure tweeters are even working.

All in all they sound like crap except these Klipsch have such fantastic dynamics that even when not right they are exciting!

Makes me wonder about the people who do not like them if they are hearing worn out caps and cheap electronics? Then I can see why they do not like them! If I did not know better from 25+ years of ownership that would make sense.

For the new crossover I have chosen Mundorf Silver in Oil from what I have read and can afford. I want a warm not overly detailed sound as Klipsch already has lots of detail and does not need to be "livened up" they need lush smooth sounding caps. Hope I have made the right choice?

When the crossover is in I will do a initial impression on same lp's. Right now it goes from really bad (on what may be worn vinyl) to not as bad but NOT great on great vinyl. (I know the quality of the vinyl because tested on other speakers Linn)

The new caps are Mundorf Silver in Oil and new copper foil inductors are coming. I will at the same time be rewiring the speakers to 12 guage from the lamp cord that PWK put in. PWK was a master at getting very good sound often with crap by today's standards components.

The choice of speakers would be a toss up now depending on what I am listening to. Klipsch vastly more dynamic but if the breaking up of the sound becomes to much to effect enjoyment the Linn would be a better choice on that Lp. If I could I would switch a button back and forth between speakers depending on song and how bad the break-up sound was bothering me.

volleyguy
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
Face
Agreed on image or sound stage.

I admitted a long time ago a poly cap vs. foil caps sound out of phase and is hard to listen too. Same thing with plastic covered wire and silk wire and the difference is easy to hear.

I can make an argument on sound stage. When I hear live music there is over lap of the instruments. I think that is an audio thing sound stage and imaging (not a bad thing mind you) more then reality. The last time I listened to a small jazz trio I did not know (eyes closed) if the drummer was behind the saxophone player or the bass player and by much, there is overlap in sound.

I remember in my old system thinking of who was in front of whom. When I listen to live music if the band is close there is overlap.

Small string quartet the same thing the sounds overlap.
The Viola player and the Violin are not seperated. They overlap there is no way to stop it.

I feel (live) sound just does not work that way. Sound overalaps by radiating out from the source. In Audio in can be seperated by a small sound stage.

Duelund parts as you know Face are about tonality. They make each instrument sound more like the real deal. Noise reduction as well in case of CAST for sure.

My system is about LIFE size sounds. The piano seems as big as a real one.

What you mentioned is the exact first thing people say about my system. ``It doesn`t even sound like a stereo`` it freaks them out.
dgarretson
2,594 posts
 
VG, as suggested by the other posters, it is fruitless to pursue a test methodology in which you listen to a stereo signal with different L/R components. I just went through this experiment in the course of upgrading from a well broken in ESS Sabre DAC chip in stereo mode to a dual mono configuration in which the broken-in stereo chip was restrapped to produce one channel in mono, and a fresh mono DAC chip was added to handle the opposite channel. I wired the two chips at random so I would not know which channel belonged to which chip. As I had earlier determined that a long break-in was necessary to bring out the best in the ESS chip, I fully expected to hear a significant difference from L to R.

In practice, the upgrade to dual mono produced an immediate improvement in perceived performance of both channels, but I could not hear any difference between L and R performance. As the new chip(in whichever unidentified channel) progressed through the break-in cycle, it became obvious that the entire stereo presentation was improving, but still impossible to associate this improvement with either channel. This proved to me that the mind hears an inextricable complicity between L and R that cannot be unraveled. It has nothing to do with plastic v. silk, phasing, or the like.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
dgarretson

How did you end up feeling about the Silver Wire?

How did you determine a long break in was needed?

To be honest I doubt long break in periods and wonder how much of that is us getting used to the part? Are you talking the same chip? If so I can easily imagine not hearing a difference.

If I had one speaker with the same caps as the other but one new and one broke in I do not think I could hear the difference?
dgarretson
2,594 posts
 
Volleyguy, I won't debate break-in phenomena at length here, but IME some rather obvious changes sometimes occur through long break-in cycles-- particularly with digital circuits and caps and cables. After further break-in the HF of Duelund 2.0 V2 wire has opened and become airier. There is always the possibility of some sort of confirmation bias taking place over time, but personally I have more faith in my ears than that.

I'm not suggesting that you can't hear a difference from L to R when using different piece parts in your L and R speakers. However it's at best a confusing test methodology that will likely miss the finer points in operation as components reach a high level of performance. My little DAC mod experiment was the best example that I could give of how such improvements are perceived by two ears in stereo.

In another context, consider that some listeners with asymmetrical hearing loss claim to experience a balanced L/R stereo image.
volleyguy OP
789 posts
 
dgarretson

How did you end up feeling about the Silver Wire?

How did you determine a long break in was needed?

To be honest I doubt long break in periods and wonder how much of that is us getting used to the part? Are you talking the same chip? If so I can easily imagine not hearing a difference.

If I had one speaker with the same caps as the other but one new and one broke in I do not think I could hear the difference?
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